Have you ever caught yourself asking for someone else’s opinion before making a decision that should be entirely yours? Perhaps you’ve been in a situation where your self-worth seemed to hinge on whether others agreed with your choices. The journey to breaking free from others’ expectations is both universal and deeply personal—a path many of us walk without even realizing we’ve lost our way.
“I didn’t even know what I liked anymore. And I didn’t even know what I thought about things,” shares Michelle Spexarth, a mother of five and trauma-informed coach who found herself at a crossroads when she realized her entire sense of self had become dependent on external validation. “I gave all my power away to get everybody else’s opinions.”
This moment of clarity didn’t arrive in isolation—it emerged from a painful confrontation with trusted adults who failed to uphold their commitments, leaving Michelle feeling invalidated and discarded. Yet this painful experience became the catalyst for profound self-discovery and transformation. It raises a compelling question: How many of us are living our lives according to others’ expectations rather than our own internal compass?
Recognizing When External Validation No Longer Works
For Michelle, the wake-up call came knocking when her teenage sons stopped completing their homeschool requirements but still wanted to participate in sports. After confirming with both their father and coach that there would be consequences, Michelle was blindsided when both those other adults reversed their positions.
“When I went and talked to their father, he reneged on everything that he had said. And then the coach did too. They went ahead and let the boys play…and they didn’t finish school,” Michelle explained to Amy Stone. “At that point, I felt like I was coming undone. I just lost my boys because I was trying to stand up for what I felt was important, and I was letting everything outside control how that happened.”
This painful experience crystallized something Michelle hadn’t fully recognized before: her sense of self-worth was contingent on others validating her decisions. When that validation disappeared, she felt personally diminished—not because her position was wrong, but because she’d given others the power to determine her value.
Does this sound familiar? Many of us can experience this disconnection without identifying it. We might feel inexplicably hurt when others don’t agree with us, or find ourselves constantly seeking approval before moving forward. These can be hallmarks of living for external validation rather than internal conviction.
Reconnecting with Yourself: A Journey to Self-Discovery
“I started really diving into an exploration of what do I like, what do I think, how do I feel about things?” Michelle shared. This seemingly simple question—what do I like?—can be surprisingly difficult to answer for someone who has spent years prioritizing others’ preferences.
The path to reconnection often begins with deliberate self-exploration. For Michelle, this journey was amplified by the isolation of the COVID-19 pandemic, which forced her to spend more time with herself than ever before. She turned to resources like the works of Dr. Wayne Dyer and Louise Hay, as well as books about narcissistic relationships that helped her understand patterns in her life.
When Amy asked about specific practices that helped Michelle reconnect with herself, her answers revealed thoughtful strategies anyone could apply:
“One of the things is that I decided I was going to say yes to new experiences… with an exploratory mindset. What meant for me is that I was going to go in, I was going to do this thing, whatever it was, full force. And then after the fact, I was going to sit down and think about did I like it, did I not like it?”
This conscious reflection—evaluating experiences based on her own feelings rather than others’ opinions—became a cornerstone of Michelle’s self-discovery. She also spent substantial time journaling, not just recording events but actively exploring different perspectives and possibilities for how she might have approached situations differently.
“I would try to think of different ways that I could have thought about it or different ways that I could have dealt with things,” Michelle explained. “Just to try to expand my mind into that realm of realizing that I always have choices.”
This recognition of choice—that we always have options in how we respond to life’s circumstances—is perhaps the most empowering insight in breaking free from external validation. When we recognize our agency, we begin to reclaim our power.
Establishing Boundaries By Standing Firm in Your Truth
As Michelle began to know herself better, she worked toward becoming what she describes as “less movable” in the face of others’ opinions. This doesn’t mean becoming rigid or closed-minded, but rather developing a solid foundation of self-knowledge that isn’t easily shaken.
“I know who I am, and if somebody makes a decision that I don’t really agree with…I can still stay right where I am with the way I feel about the situation and about myself and about the beliefs that I have within me,” Michelle explained. “They can have whatever they want, and I don’t have to be like, ‘Oh, my gosh, well, I have to agree with you’…It’s okay for me to be here where I am and it’s okay for you to be there where you are.”
This articulation captures the essence of healthy boundaries—recognizing that disagreement doesn’t require either person to change their position. It’s a mature understanding that we can coexist with different perspectives without needing to abandon our own truth.
When reflecting on how she might handle the situation with her sons differently now, Michelle highlighted an important realization about trust. “These are two people in my life that have proven untrustworthy before…But I went ahead and trusted anyway.” She acknowledged that the one change she might make would be in her expectations of others based on their past behavior—not because she needed to control them, but because she needed to protect herself.
Amy Stone offers a complementary perspective on parenting teenagers that aligns perfectly with this mindset: “Shift your expectation away from them not making mistakes and instead be ready for the fact that they are going to make mistakes. Because then you just react differently.”
This shift in expectation—from hoping others will validate your choices to accepting that they may not—is crucial in breaking free from external validation. It allows us to maintain our center even when others disappoint us.
The Rewards of Internal Validation or Finding Peace Within the Storm
What changes when we stop seeking validation from others? Michelle described her goal as achieving “a sense of peace and grounding within myself.” The external chaos doesn’t necessarily diminish—life remains messy and complex—but our internal response transforms.
When asked what she hoped would change through her work on self-validation, Michelle explained: “What I hoped would change was a lot of the erratic behaviors that I was having, that I was externally influenced. And I wanted to have a sense of peace and grounding within myself.”
This internal stability doesn’t happen overnight. It’s built through consistent practices of self-awareness, boundary-setting, and conscious choice. But the rewards are immense: greater resilience in the face of disappointment, clearer decision-making based on personal values, and freedom from the exhausting cycle of seeking approval.
Amy Stone insightfully observes that while this transformation may sound subtle when described, “it sounds like such a tiny, itty bitty payoff, but it’s such a big deal. It’s actually such a big deal.”
Indeed, the difference between living for others’ validation and living from internal conviction is profound. It’s the difference between being tossed by every wind of opinion and standing firm in your truth regardless of others’ reactions.
Embracing the Journey by Thinking About Self-Discovery as a Lifelong Process
One of the most poignant moments in the interview came when Amy asked Michelle if her younger self could have made this shift twenty years earlier. Michelle’s response reveals the wisdom of accepting our own timing:
“I always feel like that everything that we’ve been through has brought us to where we are right now and that if I were ready for it at that time, that something would have presented itself…I don’t think that I would have been ready and that I had to do all the things that I did in order to get to this place right now.”
This perspective offers grace to anyone currently struggling with external validation. Perhaps you’re not yet ready for the full journey of reclaiming your internal authority—and that’s okay. The awareness that you’re seeking validation outside yourself is the first step toward change.
As Michelle now helps others through her work as a trauma-informed coach, she witnesses the power of this transformation: “It’s really amazing to watch as people heal and have these self discoveries because it’s just beautiful to watch people just kind of come into their own on that.”
Coming into your own—finding your voice, knowing your preferences, and standing in your truth even when others disagree—this is the essence of breaking free from external validation. It’s a journey of self-discovery that continues throughout life, offering increasing freedom with each step toward authentic self-expression.
The path may not be linear, and we may occasionally fall back into patterns of seeking approval. But once we’ve experienced the power of internal validation, we have a north star to guide us back to ourselves—back to the truth that our worth is inherent, not determined by others’ opinions or validation.
This article was inspired by a thought-provoking interview with Michelle Spexarth and Amy Stone on The Art of Imperfect Adulting podcast. To hear more compelling conversations like this one and receive special offers from our guests directly to your inbox, join our email community today.
Interview Transcript Michelle Spexarth with Amy Stone | The Art of Imperfect Adulting | March 22, 2025
Amy Stone [00:00:04]:
Michelle Spexarth Welcome to Imperfect Adulting.
Michelle Spexarth [00:00:08]:
Thank you so much for having me, Amy.
Amy Stone [00:00:11]:
Yeah, no, I’m excited. I’m super excited. Are you ready for a chat?
Michelle Spexarth [00:00:15]:
I am so ready for a chat. It’s going to be good.
Amy Stone [00:00:18]:
It’s going to be great. It’s going to be good. I begin pretty much every interview asking people where they are, what part of the world you’re in. So share with us what part of the world you’re in.
Michelle Spexarth [00:00:28]:
Okay, so I am in almost the very middle of Kansas, and it is like a frozen tundra right now. It was a negative 9 when I woke up this morning. So, yeah, it’s cold. And we’re going to stay inside as much as we can.
Amy Stone [00:00:45]:
That is very, very cold. All right, so I’d love to learn a little bit about your personal background before we dive in to the main topic. Can you take a second and tell us a little bit about yourself outside of work? Some of the important people in your life, what your home life is like, Just a highlight there to get to know the audience, for the audience to get to know you.
Michelle Spexarth [00:01:06]:
Sorry. Yeah. Okay. So I am. I am a mother of five children. I have homeschooled all of them, and I’m still. I have three left in school. One that’s a senior this year, so she’ll be done. We are very active in the spring in our homeschool community with basketball and track and volleyball and all the things. So we do a lot with that. I have been. I’m like, how far do you want me to go back?
Amy Stone [00:01:37]:
As much or as little as you want to share.
Michelle Spexarth [00:01:40]:
I’ve been married twice, divorced twice. I am at a phase right now where I’m just like, I’m fine being single just because I’ve got a lot going on, and I really don’t feel like I could give the energy towards another relationship at the moment, which is fine.
Amy Stone [00:01:57]:
Run the ages of the kids.
Michelle Spexarth [00:01:59]:
Okay, so My oldest is 21. Then 19, 17, 14 and 12.
Amy Stone [00:02:05]:
Okay, so 12 to 19. 12 to 20.
Michelle Spexarth [00:02:09]:
12 to 21, yeah.
Amy Stone [00:02:10]:
12 to 21.
Michelle Spexarth [00:02:11]:
Yeah.
Amy Stone [00:02:11]:
So we’ve got four in my family. The oldest two are in their 30s, and the youngest is 18. But, yeah, so four and five. Yeah. So when you get. When you get to those numbers 4 and 5, 6 and up and above, you gotta. You gotta give the age range because it’s important. Important to know whether or not there’s a pair in there, because twins throw everything off, you know?
Michelle Spexarth [00:02:29]:
Yes.
Amy Stone [00:02:29]:
It’s a totally different dynamic yeah.
Michelle Spexarth [00:02:32]:
And it’s so funny because as I was having these, they’re like, oh, my gosh, you know, five kids. How could you do that? And I’m just like, well, I didn’t get them all at one time. It was one at a time. I got mine one at a time. And so you can easily. Just like. Well, I say easily. You can transition into the next one, you. You know, and learn how you need to change and adapt in order to, you know, make things work with one more.
Amy Stone [00:02:58]:
Very good. All right, so yes, it depends on who you talk to, whether four or five is a lot or a little. Like, to be honest, like, it totally depends on the room you’re in. But. All right, so now we could talk about that all day, but we won’t. Okay, to get to the topic of the day you proposed, the topic of when you had to stop looking outside yourself for validation, does that sound like something you’d like to talk about today?
Michelle Spexarth [00:03:22]:
Absolutely.
Amy Stone [00:03:23]:
Let’s do it.
Michelle Spexarth [00:03:24]:
Super important.
Amy Stone [00:03:25]:
I do, too. I do, too. I think that. And we’ll talk about that. Okay, so let’s begin by sharing, if you don’t mind, a little bit about the time frame. How long ago would you say that you realized that you needed to or wanted to make the change to stop looking outside yourself for validation?
Michelle Spexarth [00:03:44]:
So I didn’t even really know it was a thing. I just had lived looking for external validation my whole life. And so it was probably about three or four years ago that I started realizing that my problem, I mean, not that there aren’t others, but my problem was that I was I needed to be around people all the time. I needed to. To have them telling me, you know, I had asked, well, what do you think about? And I didn’t even know what I liked anymore. And I didn’t even know what I thought about things. And so when I started and I gave all my power away to get everybody else’s opinions and everything like that. And so when I started, like, I think it had been brought up in some of the classes that I had been taking that I started realizing, oh, that’s been my problem is that I don’t even know what I like. I don’t even know what I think about stuff. And so I started really delving into an exploration of what do I like, what do I think, how do I feel about things? And that was kind of the start for me, was, like I said, about three or four years ago.
Amy Stone [00:05:02]:
So three or four years ago is when you began to become aware of this Share with us a little bit what your life looked like three to four years ago. What were the things that were going on in your life. What did a day feel like? Stuff like that you had. So three or four years ago, you had more kids. I don’t know if all could still live at home. But you had more kids living at home probably, right?
Michelle Spexarth [00:05:24]:
Yeah, yeah, the two boys are. They’re not here with me, so, yeah, they’re out. So I’ve got three at home. And I think it was right about that time that that was when they were moving out. And so I’m trying to think about. I think I just felt like life was chaos and that everything around me was not the way I would choose for it to be. And there was so much that was out of my control. And not that I was trying to control the situations, but it was just like everything was. Was not of. Of any decisions that I had made or that I had. It was because everybody else had some opinion about it. And so I was like, oh, okay, well, I’ll do that, you know, because you said that that was good. Or, you know, oh, you say you want this. Okay, well, I’ll see what I can do to get that for you, you know, and basically I was. I was overextended. I was exhausted. I was To a place where I just. I was highly emotional and highly volatile. Not in a abusive, horrible way to other people, but just on myself. And I was just like, I just can’t. I can’t keep doing this. You know, there was a lot.
Amy Stone [00:06:58]:
So give me some examples if you remember.
Michelle Spexarth [00:07:00]:
Okay.
Amy Stone [00:07:01]:
Some of things that you were feeling were being decided or influenced by other people’s opinions. Is it family dinner time or.
Michelle Spexarth [00:07:11]:
So the one. This is. This is the thing that comes to my mind, so I’m just gonna say it because here we are in the grossness of life. I was. My two older boys did not. They were not doing school the way they were supposed to, but they wanted to be a part of sports. And so if you’re not a part. If you’re not doing your school, you shouldn’t get to do sports. And in the homeschool policy, that’s part of it also, you know, within the sports group. And so I had told the kids that you. The boys, you need to get. You need to get caught up on your school. And if you don’t, I’m going to go talk to the coach. And so I had also reached out to their dad and had a talk with him, and he said, okay, Got your back back. And I’m like, okay. So when they didn’t finish their school and I said, I’m going to talk to your dad and I’m also going to talk to the coach. And so when I went and talked to the, to their father, he reneged on everything that he had said. And then the coach did too. They went ahead and let the boys play. They went ahead and just let the boys slide and they didn’t finish school. And at that point I, it was like I. And they moved out. And so I felt like I was coming undone. I just lost my boys because I was trying to stand up for what I felt was important and I was letting everything outside control how that happened. And I just thought, nope, I have to. And it was like a wake up call for me because then I realized that people aren’t going to do. You can’t trust them to always do the right thing. You can’t trust them to do the things that are responsible that you know, and how am I going to recover from this, this happening? And so at that point I was just like, I can’t, I can’t just look outside and expect everybody to, to fall into line in the way that even they say they are.
Amy Stone [00:09:21]:
Okay, so let’s take a brief step to the side because I think I understand how this works, but I am a person who is not ever wired to do homeschooling. I very much appreciate that there’s somebody else who is delivering the curriculum to all of my kids and that I don’t therefore have to but explain how. So you guys are homeschooling. So let’s explain the sport connection because I think that, I think, I kind of think I know how this works because I’ve known so many people who have homeschooled. But so you’re homeschooling, you’re delivering the school curriculum at home, making sure they do their work. Making sure they do their work. And. And then you were. Are you a part of like a homeschool co op situation or how do they place.
Michelle Spexarth [00:10:05]:
Kind of like that. It’s a sports organization that is for homeschooled kids.
Amy Stone [00:10:11]:
Okay. So all the people on all the teams, all the people on the teams are part of the homeschool.
Michelle Spexarth [00:10:16]:
Yeah. And so within that community, it is the kids, the parents and the coaches have to sign a code of conduct. And in this code of conduct, it states that your children are at least 52% homeschooled in order to be a part of that community. And the kids Sign a code of conduct that say we will do 52% of our school as homeschooling and that if we don’t do that, that we will not be eligible to be a part of the team because that is the requirement in order to be a part of the team. And so it is based on. And in the. Between the parents and the coaches, it says that if there is a problem with the homeschooling, that the parents can get the coaches involved in order to coax the kids to complete their schoolwork so that they will be eligible to do school.
Amy Stone [00:11:23]:
And then. So there’s a homeschool team. Do you play other homeschool teams or are you playing. And are you also playing parochial schools and public schools or is it an entire league of homeschools?
Michelle Spexarth [00:11:34]:
Mostly it is either private schools or homeschool groups like us. Sometimes we’ll play public, but it’s not the typical for us.
Amy Stone [00:11:45]:
Okay. All right. I just thought not everybody listening will know that. And so I figured it was. I figured it was good to go through it. So what happens is you guys have an internal family situation where you guys, you have a family meeting, couple discussions. You say these are the rules of the sport. You think you’ve got buy in from your former spouse and the coach. And then when push comes to shove and you try and influence to enforce it, it they back down. And then how do you feel about yourself at that time? Like, why, why, why, why was it a problem?
Michelle Spexarth [00:12:23]:
It was a problem because I already was needing external validation of my importance.
Amy Stone [00:12:29]:
Okay.
Michelle Spexarth [00:12:30]:
And when they did not validate that by standing by what they said. And basically I felt discarded.
Amy Stone [00:12:42]:
Okay.
Michelle Spexarth [00:12:43]:
And in that, it was like, I’m gonna have to figure out how to. I don’t want to say stop that feeling from happening, but that what I’m doing isn’t working. And I need to figure out another way that I don’t feel discarded, that I don’t feel like I have to get my validation from people that are not going to follow through with their words.
Amy Stone [00:13:14]:
All right. So very. So that when they didn’t align with what you wanted them to do and what you thought they had said they would do, you felt invalidated and not part of. Not part of the team.
Michelle Spexarth [00:13:28]:
Right.
Amy Stone [00:13:29]:
Okay. All right. So. All right. So you shared with me in the form this little snippet. Snippet, which is that your path through this, and these are your words, is owning your actions and your life. So this is three or four years ago. You are coming to the awareness that you feel terrible when people are not validating the choices that you make with you. What. What. How did you realize that the path was owning your actions?
Michelle Spexarth [00:14:00]:
Let’s see. So I started listening to things from Dr. Dyer and.
Amy Stone [00:14:11]:
Oh, Dr. Wayne Dyer.
Michelle Spexarth [00:14:12]:
Yes, Dr. Wayne Dyer. And I started listening to Louise Hay, which, you know, she runs Hay House. Well, did. And just about, like, tapping into my own self and realizing that, yeah, I can’t control anything outside of myself, but I can always control how I decide I want to be, how I decide I want to show up, how I decide that I want to view situations. And so I. Because I was just like this, I have got to find a place where I am not so vulnerable to others, also to where I feel okay. Within myself, no matter what’s going on outside of me. And just to get to know me better.
Amy Stone [00:15:16]:
Yeah. I mean, it’s not an uncommon thing that you talk to that. I talk to women who have been in the thick of life and raising families where they have a perception and a sense of a loss of individual identity. It’s a lot of work to raise kids. It’s a very busy time in life. You. Especially if you were a single parent at seasons of this. One of my oldest friends has a saying about single parenthood. She’s like, 90% of the time, it’s fine. But that 10% is really a lot.
Michelle Spexarth [00:15:47]:
Yes.
Amy Stone [00:15:47]:
They’re not her exact words. She uses some sentence enhancers in there. But that’s. You get the point, I’m sure. And, you know, so that part of it is a common experience that a lot of people go through. I’m sure there’s a. I mean, that’s a gendered thing, but I’m sure there’s a male equivalent of it that people experience. But. So that part is that. But it’s not always something that needs intervention. And then on the other side, self intervention. And then on the other side, a lot of times it is. I talked to somebody one time who tells a story of it. Got to the point where somebody asked her what her favorite color was, and she looked to the other person in the room, like, what do you think it is?
Michelle Spexarth [00:16:31]:
Do tell me what’s my favorite color?
Amy Stone [00:16:34]:
Right, exactly. And so I’ve heard many, many stories of that. And so the interesting thing about it is that it is a slippery slope. Many of the people who go through this, myself included, you don’t realize it’s happening as you make the choices. You’re making these choices to invest in your family and to invest in their Lives and their joy and all of the things. And you don’t realize that sometimes it’s coming at the expense of burying a little piece of you as you go. And you don’t feel it until I. In your case, when the coach doesn’t back you up, you’re just like, how. What. What. How come my opinion doesn’t matter? Like, why I came to you? I’m following the rules. Where’s my. Where’s my vote here? So you start listening to Wayne Dyer. Love him. You know, he was. I think he was a middle school counselor before he went into self help, if I have.
Michelle Spexarth [00:17:24]:
I think you’re right.
Amy Stone [00:17:25]:
Yeah. Which just actually means he’s a saint walking on. And I listened to something that he recorded a long time ago, and he’s telling the story when he was much older and he was standing on the beach. His body was full of aches and pains, and he was talking about. He was self. Talking himself out of it. He was like, just being a part of the experience and, oh, I don’t feel the pain anymore. And I was like, I don’t know if you and I are ever going to be on exactly the same page with that Dr. Dyer. Like, I. But it’s a wonderful message. So you’re listening to these folks who are. Who are not people around you in your real life. What support did you have as you were making these discoveries and the coming to the awareness and the clarity of what was going on in your life.
Michelle Spexarth [00:18:11]:
You mean as far as, like, actual humans that were in my. Anything and stuff like that?
Amy Stone [00:18:16]:
I mean, sometimes support can be books and podcasts and videos and people who we don’t do. But. And, you know, so, like, anything that you did or you did have. Yeah. Part two of this. Of what did you wish you have?
Michelle Spexarth [00:18:27]:
Like, so this was right at the time of COVID happening also.
Amy Stone [00:18:33]:
Oh, okay.
Michelle Spexarth [00:18:34]:
Yeah. So there was a lot of isolation that was happening with everybody. And, you know, so it did force me into basically my own space because there was nowhere to go. There was. You know, we weren’t like, really hanging out with people or anything at that moment. So I started listening to a lot of Dr. Romani and then Dr. Joe Dispenza, which you probably know him too. And I started reading a ton of books on just self help and on knowing yourself. There’s one that I read by Debbie Mirza.
Amy Stone [00:19:19]:
I don’t know that one.
Michelle Spexarth [00:19:20]:
Okay, so Debbie Mirza is. She basically teaches, like, the depths of narcissistic relationships. And so the COVID passive aggressive narcissist was a big book that or an impactful book for me that really started showing me what I had been dealing with. And so in that, she also talks about reconnecting with yourself and about ways to do that and practices that you can do with yourself. And so that was a huge impact for me to. To be guided into a place where I could reconnect with myself and start learning about myself and start really realizing that, you know, in every situation I do have a choice. Regardless of what, you know, some people will say, well, I didn’t have a choice. And that is never, never true.
Amy Stone [00:20:20]:
So the one example I give to people where I give people an out with that is I’m like, listen, you’re walking down the street, somebody punches you in the nose unexpectedly. You didn’t choose that. No, you didn’t choose that. And you get a pass when your initial reaction is like, blah, blah, blah. But otherwise, in things that we are engaged in intentionally, I think that holds true. I think that it’s not always easy to realize or to put in effect. So what were some of the things you were doing to connect with yourself?
Michelle Spexarth [00:20:51]:
So I want to say something real quick about when you say somebody punched you. No, you didn’t get a choice about being punched. However, you get a choice as to how you respond to that.
Amy Stone [00:21:02]:
Yeah, I just give people a short waiver. Like, this is my own personal thing. I’m like, I give you a pass for the initial reaction. When you’re totally surprised. I completely agree.
Michelle Spexarth [00:21:12]:
And then you can walk away or you can punch them back or, you know, but you always get that choice even though, yeah, something’s going to happen to, to you. So, okay, so things that I did to start reconnecting with myself is one of the things is that I decided I was going to do. If somebody asked me to do something, I was going to say yes. And the reason I was going to say yes is because I wanted to go in to that experience with an exploratory mindset. And what meant for me is that I was going to go in, I was going to do this thing, whatever it was, full force. I could be highly type A at points. And then after the fact, I was going to sit down and I was going to think about did I like it, did I not like it? Were there things I did like about it? And some things I didn’t, would I do it again, would I never do it again? And to really sit down and analyze after I went and did something, you know, I spent a lot of time Walking around in. On the property that we had at that point, we were on 40 acres of land. So we would go walking. I would go sit in trees or go sit on top of, you know, buildings or whatever, just to, like, be.
Amy Stone [00:22:32]:
So when you say you were isolated, you were very isolated. 40 acres of land, which is a lot in an urban setting. Not as much in central Kansas, but. Yeah. So you were isolated during the pandemic, and you were feeling this, and so you began to say yes to things. You mean like social activities? Yeah.
Michelle Spexarth [00:22:54]:
Yeah. And then I would also. I spent a ton of time journaling.
Amy Stone [00:23:00]:
Okay.
Michelle Spexarth [00:23:01]:
Just about things that were coming up. And then I would sit and I would read over them, and I would, like, try to think of different ways that I could have thought about it or different ways that I could have dealt with things or, you know, different viewpoints of how possibilities that could have been just from, you know, okay, so this thing happened, but I thought about it this way. But what are some other ways to think about it and just to try to expand my mind into that realm of realizing that I always have choices and that, you know, different perspectives help us to feel a lot more grounded, I think. You know, not that I’m going to be, like, adopting all of them, because I don’t. But I want to have a sense of myself and then an appreciation for all the other options that there are out there. But I chose this one.
Amy Stone [00:24:00]:
Yeah. Because the choice. Seeing the choice.
Michelle Spexarth [00:24:03]:
Yes.
Amy Stone [00:24:04]:
Really powerful thing. And then feeling in control of the choice is really, really good. All right, so what. So you were aware of doing this work. You were aware of trying to shift your sense of validation and control from external to internal as you were going through this? Do you have a sense of what you hoped would change as a result of making these decisions and taking these actions?
Michelle Spexarth [00:24:29]:
What I hoped would change was a lot of the erratic behaviors that I was having, that I was, you know, externally influenced. And I wanted to have a sense of peace and grounding within myself. And I wanted to. Not that I’m not going to be movable, but I wanted to be less movable, you know, Tell me what you mean. So, like, I know who I am, and if somebody makes a decision that I don’t really agree with or, like, I can still stay right where I am with the way I feel about the situation and. And about myself and about the beliefs that I have within me, and they can. They can have whatever they want, and I don’t have to be like, oh, my gosh, well, I have to agree with you. And I have to do what you want to do and I have to, you know all the you, you, you and try to fit into that little spot where they are, that it’s okay for me to be here where I am and it’s okay for you to be there where you are. And we’re both okay. We don’t have to be all up in each other’s business.
Amy Stone [00:25:49]:
Right. Or even if you are, it doesn’t have to throw you off Right. On your vibe. So going back to the situation, that was sort of a catalyst for making you aware that you were not handling things in the way that you hoped. You’re teenagers. You have a meeting with them, you express the rules and the consequences. If they don’t participate in school, they don’t follow through. You go to their father and the coach. But now with the benefit of the work you’ve done on yourself, how would you have experienced it or handled it differently?
Michelle Spexarth [00:26:27]:
So I don’t know that I would have dealt with it differently because that needed to happen. They needed to do school and I can’t control the people outside of me and I can’t even foresee what they’re going to do or trust that their word is going to be true and that. And so I want to talk about the little trust piece there for a second because these are two people in my life that have proven untrustworthy before and I was not the kids, or are they not the kids, the adults. The adults in the situation. They had proven untrustworthy before in several different situations. But I went ahead and trusted anyway. And so that may have been something that I would have done differently. Is not trusted that their word is going to be true. That, that I. So I guess now I’m like, well, maybe I would have changed something. Maybe I would have expected. Yeah, I wouldn’t have expected something outside of the situation like these two other people to do what they said they were going to do. That I would have dealt with it differently internally with my boys and with myself, you know, knowing that they, they are not trustworthy.
Amy Stone [00:27:48]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s one of the, one of my favorite bits of parenting teenage advice is they are going to make mistakes. So shift your expectation away from them not making mistakes and instead be ready for the fact that they are going to make mistakes. Because then you just react differently. Doesn’t mean you’re not upset, doesn’t mean they’re not in trouble. Just means that instead of being on 25 out of a 10 point scale of annoyance. You’re like, here we are. Yes. And moving through it. And so then hopefully. So when you’ve done this work, you know your position, it’s important to you, and you can allow the kids to mess it up and you can allow the other people to be who they are, which may not be in alignment with who you are and hopefully not reflect back on you and make you feel like less than as a person.
Michelle Spexarth [00:28:43]:
Right?
Amy Stone [00:28:43]:
Yeah, that’s the, that’s the work. Right. And that’s the reason we do that. And it sounds like, when we say it like that, it sounds like such a tiny, itty bitty payoff, but it’s such a big deal. It’s actually such a big deal. Okay, so today as you and I are talking, you’re on the other side of this transition. You’ve done this work and you’re doing these. And I’ve got a question, just one more question I want to. I hope you’ll answer and share with the listeners. Listeners, do you think that a much younger version of you, like so 20 years ago, do you think that the younger version of you could have made this shift at that time, or do you feel like you might have needed to go through some of the experiences you had before you were ready to see it and make the shift?
Michelle Spexarth [00:29:28]:
Interesting question. I always feel like that everything that we’ve been through has brought us to where we are right now and that if I were ready for it at that time, that something would have presented itself to have created that situation where I would have dealt with it at that time.
Amy Stone [00:29:51]:
Okay.
Michelle Spexarth [00:29:52]:
And so I don’t think that I would have been ready and that, you know, I had to do all the things that I did in order to get to this place right now.
Amy Stone [00:30:10]:
Yeah, sometimes that’s a painful thing. I mean, I don’t think it’s always like that. I think we learn things as we go along. But I always wonder because it’s. I can, I don’t know about you, but I can really be a person who turns on myself and say, ah, why did I let that happen? You know, how come I didn’t, how come I didn’t already know?
Michelle Spexarth [00:30:24]:
I should have known better.
Amy Stone [00:30:26]:
I should have known better. Or even worse, when somebody looks at you like, well, you should have known. You’re like, oh, really? Oh, really? All right, so in a minute we’re going to do the final rapid fire questions, But I do want to give you a chance to tell the audience what you do and how they connect, can connect with you. And find you online and everywhere.
Michelle Spexarth [00:30:48]:
So I basically am a trauma informed coach. And so I help people that have been through narcissistic abuse or toxic relationships to heal. And we start working on their confidence level about owning themselves like we talked about today, just about being more aware of ourselves and being able to be in a space where we see that we have choices and see what we can do within ourselves to be our own person and to not look outside for that validation. It’s really amazing to watch as people heal and have these self discoveries because I don’t know, it’s just beautiful to watch people just kind of come into their own on that. I have a free Facebook group, it’s called Soul survivors and I do weekly classes in there so that people can learn just how to heal, what they’re dealing with, or how just to grow forward, to become a healthier human.
Amy Stone [00:31:56]:
Beautiful. All right, so Soul survivors as the. And we will put the links for all of this in the show notes. You very generously made an offer for the audience that I’ll share, which is that you have a course called heal you heal your kids and there’s a link to get that course for free. That’s a really, really generous offer. I want to thank you for sharing that with the audience. People will find the link in the show notes. And also the easiest way to get these links is always to be subscrib to the imperfect adulting email community. Because then it’s just in there and just click on it and it’s. It’s magic. It’s the magic of technology. So we’re going to close with three fun rapid fire questions. The idea is you just answer whatever comes to mind.
Michelle Spexarth [00:32:41]:
Okay.
Amy Stone [00:32:42]:
All right. What is the worst haircut or hairstyle that you have ever had? That you have ever had? What’s the story?
Michelle Spexarth [00:32:50]:
So I have a picture. I was on a softball team and I had the bangs that were all the same length and just straight across. And I would wear my hair in a ponytail and so it looks like almost a bowl cut. And it was ridiculous.
Amy Stone [00:33:06]:
How old were you at that point?
Michelle Spexarth [00:33:07]:
I think I was probably about 10.
Amy Stone [00:33:10]:
Yeah. No, that is right around the season. It’s a. I think. I think a lot of people have like the 10 to 14 year old hair story. All right, so when you are invited to a barbecue or a potluck dinner or some sort of collaborative type thing and you’re asked to bring something, what is your go to item that you. You bring?
Michelle Spexarth [00:33:29]:
Ooh, I would. The first thing that comes to mind is chips and dip.
Amy Stone [00:33:37]:
Okay.
Michelle Spexarth [00:33:37]:
Because it’s easy.
Amy Stone [00:33:39]:
Yeah, yeah. No, that’s you. I mean, you know, you got to have a thing ready to go. You got to have an idea and a plan. 100%. All right? So parents and step parents and all kind of adults, they both receive and give tons of advice. It’s a thing that goes with the job, right? As a mom of five, what is one small bit of advice that you got? So good advice that you got as a new mom.
Michelle Spexarth [00:34:05]:
As a new mom. Okay, can I tell a story here?
Amy Stone [00:34:08]:
Sure.
Michelle Spexarth [00:34:09]:
Okay. So this was coming from my 3 year old, oldest child, and I kept asking him to come over here and help me with something. We were. So I’ll set the scene. We were outside, we were trying to pull weeds and do some landscaping in the front yard. He’s sitting on the steps watching something and not doing what I say. And I’m like, you need to get over here. You need to obey me and get over here right now. And he looks at me and he goes, but, mom, this roly poly is getting ready to have babies. And I go over there and sure enough, it’s laying on its back wiggling around, and these little white things are coming out of its stomach and going everywhere. And in that moment, this was my truth moment of, is it really that important for my child to strictly obey me blindly all the time and give up their autonomy, or is it better for me to give them space to explore and be who they are and me to accept and love that? I mean, not that obedience isn’t important, but is it really as important as we think it is?
Amy Stone [00:35:27]:
Right?
Michelle Spexarth [00:35:27]:
And so that really opened up my heart to allowing my children to be who they are and loving and exploring that with them.
Amy Stone [00:35:38]:
That is a beautiful story. As you were telling it, I was thinking to myself, how in the world would he know that the roly poly potato bug was about to have babies? I was. I mean, I have spent fair amount of time in the dirt with the roly polies, with the kids. And. And there’s. We have a roly poly story where my. One of my kids was, you know, adopting and naming these roly polys. And I came home, I was like, we need, we need some pets. This child needs something to hold and snuggle.
Michelle Spexarth [00:36:05]:
Not a roly poly, right?
Amy Stone [00:36:07]:
All the love to the roly polies. But, you know, they are, they’re. They’re. Anyway, they’re just rolly polys, right? They’re just roly polys. They’re not the same kitten or a guinea pig or. Or any of those things.
Michelle Spexarth [00:36:18]:
All right.
Amy Stone [00:36:19]:
That is a wonderful story. I thank you for sharing it. That’s it. Michelle Specsar, thank you so much.
Michelle Spexarth [00:36:23]:
Thank you so much, Amy. This has been wonderful.