There’s a common moment in many transformative journeys when you realize the life you’ve been living isn’t actually yours. For some, this revelation comes as a gentle whisper during a quiet evening. For others, it arrives like a detonator going off, leaving them standing in the rubble of everything they thought defined success.
Ray Martin experienced the latter. One day he was a celebrated business leader, recognized by the Daily Telegraph as Business Leader of the Year, living what appeared to be the perfect life. The next, his wife and business partner had left, his father had died, and he found himself sleeping on a friend’s couch, crying himself to sleep most nights. “I felt like a broken person,” Ray recalls. “I never thought I’d ever be happy again. I really felt like life was over.”
Yet within this devastating collapse lay the seeds of something extraordinary—a 14-year journey that began as a six-month sabbatical and evolved into a complete redefinition of what it means to create a better life. Ray’s story illuminates a profound truth: sometimes we must lose everything we think we want to discover what we actually need. His experience offers real-life motivation for anyone feeling stuck in the expectations others have placed upon them, showing how to reclaim your time and energy and begin living life on your terms.
The question Ray’s journey poses isn’t whether we’ll face moments of profound disruption—it’s whether we’ll have the courage to see them as invitations to transformation rather than evidence of failure.
![— Ray Martin [00:02:54 → 00:03:01] Viral Topic: Success Doesn't Guarantee Happiness "I was successful on paper, had all the things that equal happiness, etc. But, you know, the bizarre thing is, Amy, that throughout that period, I was never really happy. And I could never figure it out. I was just always in my quietest moments going, how come I've ended up where it all looks great to everyone else, but it doesn't feel great to me?"](https://imperfectadulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/taoia97RMartinquote-233x300.jpg)
When Success Feels Like a Prison
Ray described himself as a “typical mainstreamer” who had followed the prescribed path to happiness without question. “When I was at school, the only road to happiness that I understood, which I’d been told by my parents and teachers was you get a really good job, you get a wife, you get a house, you have kids. That’s all of that equals happiness,” he explains.
This blueprint for success—what Americans call the American Dream—had delivered everything it promised. Ray had built a successful consulting firm, achieved professional recognition, and accumulated all the traditional markers of achievement. Yet something fundamental was missing. “Throughout that period, I was never really happy. And I could never figure it out. I was just always in my quietest moments going, how come I’ve ended up where it all looks great to everyone else, but it doesn’t feel great to me?”
This disconnect between external success and internal fulfillment reveals a crucial insight about breaking free from others’ expectations. Often, we become so focused on checking boxes that we forget to ask whether those boxes actually align with our authentic desires. Ray’s experience demonstrates how following a predetermined script, even successfully, can leave us feeling trapped in a life that looks perfect on paper but feels hollow in practice.
The pressure to conform to cultural models of success creates what Ray later identified as “the four ties” that define most people’s lives: career, partner, house, and community. While these aren’t inherently negative, they become problematic when they’re chosen based on external expectations rather than internal truth.
The Courage to Lose Sight of Shore
When Ray’s carefully constructed life imploded, friends began suggesting he take a sabbatical. His initial reaction was telling: “That’s a stupid idea. I’d never do. Who wants to waste their life backpacking around the world?” This resistance reveals how deeply we internalize societal judgments about what constitutes valuable use of time, especially as we age.
Amy Stone’s observation during their conversation captures this perfectly: “Backpacking around Europe. I think of that as more something that people do when they are 17, 25.” The assumption that exploration and self-discovery have expiration dates keeps many people trapped in unsatisfying situations well into their later years.
Ray’s transformation began not with the decision to travel, but with an unexpected acting opportunity in Australia. When he saw an audition notice for a play requiring a British accent, he initially dismissed it as ridiculous. But something deeper was calling. “I sort of felt, honestly, Amy, that God was calling me to do it. It was a weird feeling. It was beyond just a good idea. I sort of felt there was some destiny involved in this.”
The breakthrough came when Ray realized that “Ray the Businessman is just a character, like George Pigdon, who I learned how to play. I learned how he walked, how he dressed, how he sounded. Ray the Businessman’s just a character I’ve been playing for 20 years without consciously realizing it’s not me. I can change that character or drop it or write him out of the series.”
This insight reveals a fundamental truth about identity: much of who we think we are consists of roles we’ve learned to perform rather than expressions of our authentic selves. Breaking free from others’ expectations requires recognizing these performances and choosing which ones truly serve us.
The Paradox of Letting Go
Ray’s decision to sell everything and embark on his sabbatical involved confronting two competing voices: his “habit voice” that questioned whether he was throwing his life away, and his “wisdom voice” that urged him to trust the process. “That’s what I call my habit voice, the voice that says all that stuff. But my wisdom voice, which is coming from inside my gut, much lower down in my being, was going, Ray, you just trust this.”
This internal dialogue illustrates a crucial aspect of personal transformation. The rational mind, conditioned by years of external expectations, naturally resists change that appears risky or unconventional. Learning to distinguish between fear-based resistance and genuine wisdom becomes essential for anyone seeking to transform their relationships with societal pressures.
Ray’s approach to decision-making evolved to include what he called “confirmation signals”—external signs that helped validate his inner guidance. When contemplating the acting role, he told his consulting clients about the opportunity and said he would only go if they gave their full blessing. All of them encouraged him to pursue it, providing the confirmation he needed.
This practice of seeking confirmation while maintaining agency offers a middle path between blind rebellion against expectations and passive compliance. It allows for input from others while preserving the final decision-making authority within oneself.
The Long Arc of Transformation
What began as a six-month sabbatical extended to 14 years, not through poor planning but through Ray’s willingness to follow emerging opportunities rather than predetermined timelines. A chance encounter with a traveler led to a transformative Vipassana meditation retreat. Meeting a marathon runner inspired him to complete the New York Marathon as a fundraiser. Each experience created new possibilities that weren’t visible from his original vantage point.
“I felt like completely different mindset leaving than when I entered,” Ray describes his experience after the meditation retreat. “And I knew there was something deeply transformational about that that I needed to pursue and understand at a deeper level. So I decided that six months wasn’t enough.”
This willingness to remain open to the unexpected requires what Ray quotes as the courage to “discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore.” The metaphor perfectly captures the paradox of transformation: we must be willing to release what’s familiar and safe to discover what’s possible.
Ray’s journey also demonstrates how purpose often emerges through action rather than analysis. His involvement with elephant sanctuaries and orphanages grew organically from his travels, leading to meaningful philanthropic work that wouldn’t have been accessible from his former life as a London businessman.
Building a Life That Feels Like Yours
Perhaps the most significant insight from Ray’s story is how transformation happens not through massive overhauls but through consistent choices to align actions with inner truth. As he puts it, “I just knew that I was going through a process of getting my life into alignment with what’s true for me.”
This alignment required ongoing attention to the difference between what others expected and what genuinely resonated with him. Ray references Bronnie Ware’s research on the top regrets of the dying: “I wished I’d lived my life true to myself and not the life that others expected of me.” This insight became a guiding principle for his choices.
The practical implications of this shift are profound. Rather than asking “What should I do?” based on external standards, the question becomes “What feels true to me?” This doesn’t mean becoming selfish or irresponsible, but rather taking responsibility for creating authentic fulfillment rather than performing success.
Ray’s story also illustrates how breaking free from expectations often requires a willingness to be misunderstood. Not everyone supported his choices, and he had to navigate both encouragement and skepticism from those around him. Developing internal validation becomes crucial when external approval is no longer the primary measure of worth.
The Ripple Effects of Authentic Living
Ray’s transformation didn’t end with personal fulfillment—it created opportunities to serve others in ways that wouldn’t have been possible within his former constraints. His book “Life Without a Tie” and the accompanying website now provide inspiration and guidance for others facing similar crossroads.
This demonstrates how authentic living creates value not just for ourselves but for others who benefit from our willingness to model alternative possibilities. When we break free from limiting expectations, we give others permission to question their own assumptions about what’s required for a meaningful life.
Ray’s willingness to share his story, including the difficult emotions of feeling like “a charlatan” and carrying “guilt and shame,” provides real-life motivation for others who may be struggling with similar feelings. His honesty about the challenges of transformation—the anxiety, uncertainty, and practical difficulties—makes the journey feel accessible rather than heroic.
The conversation with Amy Stone reveals how transformation stories can inspire others to examine their own relationships with expectations. Her questions about the practical aspects—”How did you pay for this sabbatical?”—address the real concerns that keep many people trapped in unsatisfying situations.
More than an inspiring escape story
Ray Martin’s journey from successful businessman to fulfilled world traveler offers more than an inspiring escape story—it provides a roadmap for anyone feeling trapped by others’ expectations. His experience demonstrates that transformation often begins with loss, requires courage to face uncertainty, and unfolds through small, consistent choices to honor authentic desires over external approval.
The path Ray describes isn’t about rejecting all structure or responsibility, but about becoming conscious of the difference between choices made from fear and those made from wisdom. His story suggests that the very moments when we feel most broken and lost may actually be invitations to discover who we really are beneath the roles we’ve learned to perform.
Perhaps most importantly, Ray’s 14-year sabbatical illustrates that there’s no expiration date on reinvention. Whether you’re 25 or 45 or 65, the possibility of creating a better life that truly feels like yours remains available. The question isn’t whether you’re too old or too established or too responsible to make changes—it’s whether you’re willing to trust that inner voice that whispers about possibilities beyond what others expect.
Sometimes the greatest risk isn’t taking a leap into the unknown—it’s staying in a life that never quite feels like home.
This article was inspired by a thought-provoking interview with Ray Martin and Amy Stone on The Art of Imperfect Adulting podcast. To hear more compelling conversations like this one and receive special offers from our guests directly to your inbox, join our email community today.
Interview Transcript Ray Martin with Amy Stone | The Art of Imperfect Adulting | July 9, 2025
Amy Stone [00:00:01]:
You’re listening to the Art of Imperfect Adulting. I’m your host, Amy Stone. Here I share stories from real people navigating the adventure that I call adulting. Are you ready? Me too. Let’s do this. Hello, friends. In this episode, I’m going to introduce you to my guest, Ray Martin. I think you are going to love this story. And part of the reason I think that is that there’s a bit of Ray’s experience that I share today that we share with you today that it reminds me a little bit of a blockbuster movie script from many years ago. Hold onto that thought while you listen because after you listen, I’m super curious if you have the same thought that I do. So just share with me, like look me up, send me a message on any platform and let me know if it reminds you of a movie and if so, what movie you think I might have been thinking of as I share this with you. That’ll be fun. Ray and I talk about how a six month sabbatical turned into a 14 year backpacking experience that changed his life. We talk about why he went on the first sabbatical at all. And I ask him how he paid for all of these things. Also, I happen to be very proud of myself in this interview. Turns out that Ray has run a few marathons and it comes up in the conversation, if you’re new to the show, you may not know this about me, but I am a runner and sometimes I go completely off track with somebody who’ll mention that they also run or do triathlons. And I’m like, oh, me too, me too. Let’s talk about that forever and ever. I’m clearly growing up. I resist the temptation to do that in this interview. I did talk to him about it after we were done. Yay me. All right, now are you ready? Are you ready to meet Ray? I’m ready. Let’s do it. Ray Martin, welcome to the Art of Imperfect Adulting. Are you ready for a fun chat?
Ray Martin [00:01:51]:
I am. Amy, thanks for having me on your program.
Amy Stone [00:01:54]:
I’m so happy you’re here. I start every interview by asking people what part of the world they call home. And I am excited to ask you you this because I know you have the accent, but where are you today?
Ray Martin [00:02:03]:
Yeah, I’m obviously in England about on the edge of London as a small town called Leighton Buzzard. And I’m located very close to there today.
Amy Stone [00:02:14]:
Layton. Buzzard, That’s a great name. That is a great name. Fantastic. All right, so in a second we’re going to get to the topic of the day, but I’m going to ask one more warm up question and the question I’ve been going with lately is, what’s something that you do to take care of yourself? Something that could be called self care.
Ray Martin [00:02:30]:
Yeah, that’s very easy to answer. I sit in meditation for 20 minutes every morning before I start my day.
Amy Stone [00:02:37]:
20 minutes of meditation. So when you say meditation, are you doing solo silent meditation or are you solo silent? Ah, you’re a better meditator than I am. I can do about three minutes of solo silent, but I rely heavily on guided meditations because otherwise I, otherwise I, I do this, I like open my eyes and I’m like three minutes, that’s it.
Ray Martin [00:02:59]:
Yeah, I like those occasionally too. They’re pretty good. Some of those guided ones.
Amy Stone [00:03:03]:
Yeah. And it’s, it gives me just enough to keep me, keep me going. So that is very good. And I don’t do it every day, I should do it more often. I do what I do every day. I do movement. So I call, I tell myself it’s moving meditation. So there we go. All right. The topic of the day is that we’re going to talk about how what was supposed to be for you, a six month sabbatical turned into a 14 year journ was life changing. And that sounds to me like an amazing story. And I think a great question for me to start with for the beginning and for the listeners who are there is can you take us back to before this happened? What was like life like for you before you even went on the sabbatical? What were you doing for a job, how old were you, that kind of stuff.
Ray Martin [00:03:44]:
Yeah, I can, I would describe myself as a typical mainstreamer.
Amy Stone [00:03:51]:
Mainstream, okay.
Ray Martin [00:03:52]:
When I was at school, the only road to happiness that I understood, which I’ve been told by my parents and teachers, was you get a really good job, you get a wife, you get a house, you have kids. That’s all of that equals happiness.
Amy Stone [00:04:07]:
Yes. So in the States we call that the American Dream. Do they have, when you grow up in the uk, what do they call it?
Ray Martin [00:04:12]:
Yeah, not the American Dream exactly. I don’t know what the name for it was, but that’s what everyone said, that’s the way. Okay. And I never questioned it. I wasn’t even aware enough about my thoughts about that to question it, just followed it. So by the time I got to my mid-30s, I was ready to launch a business of my own because someone had said to me, you’ll never get wealthy Working as an employee for somebody, you know, if you want to seriously do okay financially, you’ve got to start your own business. And I was in a relationship with someone who had talents and vision in the same area that I did. And so as a couple, the two of us decided to launch our own consulting firm. And we built that up over a period of years very successfully. And in 2002, we’ve got this newspaper in England called the Daily Telegraph. It’s a bit like the New York Times or something. And they chose me as the business leader of the year in England.
Amy Stone [00:05:08]:
Wow.
Ray Martin [00:05:08]:
Having built this company. So I had, you know, all the boxes ticked. I was successful on paper, had all the things that equal happiness, etc. But you know, the bizarre thing is, Amy, that throughout that period, I was never really happy and I could never figure it out. I was just always in my quietest moments going, how come I’ve ended up where it all looks great to everyone else, but it doesn’t feel great to me? And then I never resolved that until one day the woman I was married to, who was my business partner, came back from a business meeting and said, I’m leaving you and I’m leaving the company. It was really sudden and honored.
Amy Stone [00:05:50]:
Wow.
Ray Martin [00:05:51]:
Didn’t see it coming. It was a real shock. I mean, it really was probably one of the most shocking things I’ve experienced in my life so far. And at the same time that happened, my father got very, very ill and he died shortly afterwards. So within three or four months of the life I knew as normal, I was out of my house, out of my marriage, my dad had gone, my company was going to change. It was literally like someone had explosive charges around my life and pressed the detonator handle and it all just blown up.
Amy Stone [00:06:22]:
Yes.
Ray Martin [00:06:23]:
I’m standing in a big bomb crater of rubble looking at all this destroyed life.
Amy Stone [00:06:28]:
That really is many of the things. So what happened? So your marriage and your relationship that dissolved. So that’s a huge part. You moved, you moved, moved out of where you were living partly because of their relationship. That’s another thing. One of the foundational element relationships of your childhood, your relationship with your father that shifted. That’s three like crisis level events in your life. Did you, did you keep the company or did the separation of the, the marriage mean that the company also dissolved?
Ray Martin [00:07:02]:
The company eventually got sold to somebody who wanted to take it to the next stage of its life. I energetically, it was over for me when my ex wife decided she wanted out. It had been a sort of Joyful creation out of the love we had for what we were doing. And I didn’t feel it was ever going to be the same with a different business partner who wasn’t someone I was at the heart level engaged with.
Amy Stone [00:07:28]:
Oh my goodness, that’s so much change so fast, Ray. So this.
Ray Martin [00:07:34]:
Yeah, I was down on the floor. I mean I was literally, I felt like a broken person. I never thought I’d ever be happy again. I really feel, felt like life was over. I was like 44 years old and.
Amy Stone [00:07:44]:
I thought that’s 44 years old.
Ray Martin [00:07:45]:
Yeah.
Amy Stone [00:07:46]:
What was your. So you had to move out of the house that you lived in with your partner. Where did you move? Did you move to like a small apartment?
Ray Martin [00:07:54]:
I stayed with a friend in an apartment for a while and then I went back into the house after my ex wife had left to get it sold and things like that.
Amy Stone [00:08:03]:
But so sleeping on the couch or in the guest room of a friend.
Ray Martin [00:08:08]:
Yeah, exactly. Life was just weird for a while.
Amy Stone [00:08:12]:
What? Yeah. What did that. So take me back to sleeping on the couch of a friend. You had been named a successful adult. You had been. You had the accolades, like many people chase the accolades. Having somebody else tell us that we’ve hit success. You had that a newspaper came and is like, you are successful, Ray Martin. And fast forward.
Ray Martin [00:08:32]:
Yeah. I even have people phoning me up asking me to help them be better leaders.
Amy Stone [00:08:37]:
Better leaders and then fast forward and you’re staying as a guest on your friend in his guest room or on his couch. What, what did that feel like at like 9:00 clock at night when you’re sitting in a house that isn’t yours? If you had to describe that in a couple words, what would you do today with some distance on it?
Ray Martin [00:08:54]:
It was horrible. I cried myself to sleep most nights. I had a very understanding friend who knew my ex wife as well and so he was, he was fantastic to me for a while and then. Yeah, it was just awful.
Amy Stone [00:09:10]:
Pretty awful, yes. Yeah.
Ray Martin [00:09:12]:
Really the lowest point of my life, I’d say.
Amy Stone [00:09:15]:
Oh my goodness.
Ray Martin [00:09:16]:
And that is why people who cared about me started to make suggestions like, why don’t you take a sabbatical for a few months?
Amy Stone [00:09:23]:
Oh, so that’s how the sabbatical idea came from. Bubble up from inside you. Somebody came and said, what about this?
Ray Martin [00:09:29]:
Yeah. No, the first time someone suggest just looked at them and said, that’s a stupid idea. I’d never do. Who wants to waste their life backpacking around the world?
Amy Stone [00:09:39]:
So. And also backpacking. We think of it. So you’re in your mid-40s when this is bouncing around your head, backpacking around Europe. I think of that as more something that people do when they are 17, 25.
Ray Martin [00:09:55]:
That’s right. We call it a gap year in England. When you finish school and you go before you go to university, you have a gap year. Most people go and travel that year.
Amy Stone [00:10:03]:
Yeah. We also call it a gap year after in the uk, but because we are so committed to working hard in the United States, most people don’t do it. And so it’s this whole pressure of it’s catching on. It just depends on where it is. But we have a very cultural sensation that if you don’t do things right now, you’re never going to come back and do them, which puts a lot of pressure on our youngsters, not necessarily in a good way. All right, so the idea of a sabbatical bubbles up from your. You initially think that it’s crazy, you’re never gonna do it. And how does that shift? How does that shift and become something that you begin to plan? And how long does that take?
Ray Martin [00:10:46]:
Well, I’ll tell you what happened. I mean, it is quite hard to believe, but this is really what happened. I was so depressed and broken from what was going on that another friend gave me some advice at the same time and said, if you are really in a dark place and you can’t see a way out, one of the things you can do is find someone who really, really needs help and just focus 100% of your attention energy on helping them for a while and just put your own troubles to one side and just focus on that person. And generally when you do that, something will emerge, some crack in your reality will emerge by taking your attention completely off it for a while. And I thought, actually, that’s pretty good bit of advice. And I had heard through my grapevine of friends that someone I knew lived in Australia with her husband and very young son, had breast cancer. So I reached out to her and I said, is that true? She said, yeah, I said. And she told me she was about to go for chemotherapy, etc. I said, how would you feel if I came out to Australia for a month and just took care of you and Matt and Pete just was generally there to help and support. She’s, oh, that would be great. Please come, please come.
Amy Stone [00:11:54]:
Wow.
Ray Martin [00:11:55]:
So I did that and I stayed for about three and a half weeks with them. Nothing changed. I was still in the same bunk. And then I was thinking, oh, that bloody bit of advice it wasn’t that good. And nothing is exactly the same. I’ll tell you, it didn’t. It did shift. But I realized that within that advice, there’s nothing to do with how long it takes until the new.
Amy Stone [00:12:18]:
Sure.
Ray Martin [00:12:19]:
Someone said it would go to be immediate.
Amy Stone [00:12:21]:
Yeah.
Ray Martin [00:12:21]:
So I had a week left, and I went to Cairns in Australia to see another friend. Because it’s such a long way from England, I thought I better see friends while I’m here.
Amy Stone [00:12:29]:
Yes.
Ray Martin [00:12:30]:
And. And I. When I date the day I arrived, she said, we’re just getting tickets to see a play at the theater tomorrow night. Do you want one? Because you can come with us. I said, yeah, okay. So we’re at the theater the next night watching this play. And in the interval, I saw an ad in the program with all the details saying, we’re going to audition for the next play here at this theater. It’s about a British member of Parliament. It’s called out of Order. It’s a very famous play. It’s a comedy, and we’re inviting actors to come and audition for it. I turned to my friends, completely joking, and said I should audition for that because I’ve got the perfect English accent to play a member of parliament. That would be great. And they. I thought they just laughed, but they actually looked at me quite seriously and said, well, we know the director of the play. Why don’t you go to the audition? You’re here on Sunday. I said, I. Don’t be ridiculous. I’m leaving on Tuesday, and I’m not an actor. I’m never going to get a part. And I did. No, no, no, no, no. Silly idea. They said, well, why don’t you just do it for fun? I said, okay, I’ll do it for fun. And I did go. Flew back to England. The day I arrived, my friend Julie, who put me up to this audition, she said, we’ve had a call from the director of the play. They really, really want you to be in the play. And I said, well, I can’t afford to come back for three months. I’ve got all this work to do, mortgage to pay. They said, they want you to play the lead role in the play, George picton. It’s like 400 lines a night in the script. It’s. It’s the central comedic character of the whole play. They want you to play him. So I quickly got a copy of the script from a theater shop in London. My brother’s wife is an actress. So I showed it to her and I said, do you think Someone with my experience, I. E. NAM could sort of somehow do this. He said, yeah, I think you could. I could help you. I definitely think you could. And I then called the director of the play from London and said, are you crazy wanting me to do this? You know, I’ve got no experience, you know. You know you’ve got 400 paying customers every night coming in for their tickets, and you sure you think I could handle this? They said, we think you’d be great. We’ll guide you. We’ll get you ready. We know you could do it. We really want you to do it. So I needed what I call a confirmation signal that this was the right decision. Because I sort of felt, honestly, Amy, that God was calling me to do it. It was a weird feeling. It was beyond just a good idea. I sort of felt there was some destiny involved in this. And so I thought, what’s the confirmation signal that I need? So I called. I got back from Australia to help three or four clients that had booked commitments with me to do work with them. And I needed money to pay for my life. And I called each one and I just thought, how I’ll be truthful with them. I told them this story exactly as I’m telling it now. I said, I really feel I’m being called to do this. I want to go back and do it, but I promised you I would be here to do this work with you. So if you say you want me to stay and do this work, I will put that first. And I won’t go. I’ll only go if you give me your full, unconditional blessing to do it. And I’ll see you when I get back. And all of them said, I give you my blessing. I would definitely do it if I was you. All of them. So I knew that this was my confirmation signal. Wow. Then flew back to Australia two days later. And I acted in the play. It was splendid. I got reviews in all the newspapers. It was just a life changing experience. I still didn’t have any new insight about the rest of my life. But as I was flying home from Australia after the play, I noticed I had this feeling of dread in my body in. In the airplane, thinking, I’m going back to be Ray the Businessman in London again now. And that doesn’t feel so great with all the troubles that he has in his life. And then I thought, hang on a minute. I had this massive epiphany. I thought, ray the Businessman is just a character like George Pigdon, who I learned how to play. I Learned how he walked, how he dressed, how he sounded. Ray, the businessman’s just a character I’ve been playing for 20 years without consciously realizing it’s not me. I can change that character or drop it or write him out of the series. I can just kill that off. And so when I got back to England, I decided to sell my house and close the company and sell it and get out.
Amy Stone [00:16:42]:
All right. That was one of my questions. Like when I was thinking about how this would have shaken out and how you ended up doing a sabbatical. Because I think that one of the things that keeps people from making big changes as adults is it is that we get enmeshed with our requirements. So, like, when you’re. Yeah, you know, when you’re 18 and you don’t have anything, there’s nothing. You don’t need much money. It doesn’t cost much to run your life. And then we build all these entrapments that are very comfortable and they’re not bad, but, you know, it’s like there’s a limit where it’s like, you know, so you have to do these things so that. So you come back. So how long was the run in Australia? How many shows did you do?
Ray Martin [00:17:18]:
About 12 over two weeks.
Amy Stone [00:17:21]:
Two weeks. And then that is. That is an amazing story. And it does. It does feel like. I mean, people have different ways of thinking how these things work out. But you, like, you know, it started with a little blip of an idea, and then you took a little bit of action, you tried it, and then, you know, you got the job and your friends told you and all of these things, it was lining up like it was destined to be a few. I can see how it feel like a calling. How long is this after the period of mine, the minds exploding in your life? Like, how far out are you from the big, big explosions that happened? Like your wife leaving you and stuff?
Ray Martin [00:17:55]:
Yeah, we physically separated our lives or began that process in October of 2020. Sorry, 2003. October 2003. And I went to Australia in April of 2005.
Amy Stone [00:18:08]:
Okay. So it’s about two years after that.
Ray Martin [00:18:10]:
Is about a year and a half.
Amy Stone [00:18:12]:
Yeah, about a year and a half. So about a year and a half. And then you begin the process of, you know, divesting yourself of your. Of the. Of the things. The house, the job.
Ray Martin [00:18:23]:
Yeah. I mean, I’ll tell you, I just knew that I was going through a process of getting my life into alignment with what’s true for me. That’s all I could describe it as I stopped. I just stopped doing stuff that was, as Bronnie Ware said in her book the Top Five Regrets of the Dying, which is the book that’s probably had the greatest impact on me ever. She said the top regret that everyone has when they die is I wished I’d lived my life true to myself and not the life that others expected of me. And I look back at my life and everything I was doing was what others expected of me. And I was really good at it. That was the weird thing.
Amy Stone [00:18:57]:
Yeah.
Ray Martin [00:18:58]:
But I just didn’t like it that much. And so I thought, I’ve got to stop this. I’m going to stop this. I’m going to do what I want to do, not what others expect of me. And so.
Amy Stone [00:19:06]:
And I think that. I think that your experience is highlighting a missing piece of how a lot of people experience this.
Ray Martin [00:19:15]:
Yeah.
Amy Stone [00:19:15]:
When you. You had to actually get so far away from. From your existing life.
Ray Martin [00:19:21]:
Yes.
Amy Stone [00:19:21]:
To be able to even see and feel that it was not in alignment. If we had asked you before your wife had walked out, you. You had maybe a sense of malaise.
Ray Martin [00:19:35]:
Yeah.
Amy Stone [00:19:36]:
An uncertainty. But not enough to pull the trigger because you didn’t have any way to highlight what was going on.
Ray Martin [00:19:43]:
I love what you just said, Amy. And I remember because I was getting these confirmation signals from the client, say, go and do it. And then at the time, I read this quote, and I thought, wow, that’s the icing on the cake, because the quote said something like, a man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore.
Amy Stone [00:20:01]:
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. That’s absolutely. That’s a good one. I have a lot of those little things that reaffirm that idea, because when you are comfortable, it is hard to see that. But it’s, you know, the ship is not meant to stay in the harbor. That kind of thing. It’s like. It’s like. But, you know, it’s easier in the harbor when you’re at the dock. You know, that’s where the easy things are. And. Yeah. And I think that’s also why people have the big epiphanies about happiness and unhappiness when they travel on vacation. But they can be false signals. They can be false signals, and people can. My only point here is I don’t think it’s as easy all the time to pick it up in the. In the moment.
Ray Martin [00:20:44]:
Yeah.
Amy Stone [00:20:45]:
As we wish it was. And I think that’s one of the common frustrations that a lot of people go Through. It’s like something is off, but I don’t even know what it is. And you can be surrounded by people who are like, hey, just get in alignment. And you’re like, alignment with what? What does that mean?
Ray Martin [00:20:59]:
Yeah, well.
Amy Stone [00:21:00]:
So, yeah, I think.
Ray Martin [00:21:01]:
I think that was that event. To answer the long answer to the question, that was what gave me the impetus to start the sabbatical. Because when I got back to London, I put my house on the market, and within two months it was sold. And that gave me the job of deciding what to do with everything that was in it, because it was the accumulation of all the material possessions of my life. So I decided, having read the book by Marsh Ryan Nicodemus and Joshua Fields Milburn, the minimalist guys.
Amy Stone [00:21:30]:
Oh, okay. Yes. All right.
Ray Martin [00:21:32]:
I read their book and watched their documentary, and I decided I would either sell or give away everything that I owned because I didn’t want to put it into storage. Everyone who’d done that had told me they never wanted the stuff back, and they wasted tens of thousands of dollars. And so I got.
Amy Stone [00:21:45]:
The first month is free. The first month is free. That’s how they get you in there.
Ray Martin [00:21:49]:
It might be. But I got rid of everything and it left me with like a 22 kilo holder of clothes and a laptop. That was all I had left.
Amy Stone [00:21:56]:
Wow. Okay.
Ray Martin [00:21:57]:
And I was ready then to go on a sabbatical, and I had a couple of dates in London with someone who was also wanting to travel for different reasons. And we said, we’ll travel together initially, so that it was all coming together really. Really in an easy way. It just. It was sort of laying itself down in front of me almost.
Amy Stone [00:22:16]:
So as you were doing this, as you were shedding the layers, getting rid of. You sell the house, you’re getting rid of things. Did you have moments of uncertainty as you were doing this? Because that’s a big stuff is tied to our memories and to our emotions. And, you know, like, so did you. Did. Was it clear that it was like, this is all? Or were there moments of like. Oh, I don’t know.
Ray Martin [00:22:42]:
Yeah, there were some. You know, just in. As I was going off to sleep, sometimes I’m thinking, am I just nuts? Am I throwing this all away? Am I ever gonna have a life like this again? You know, I built all this up for. Took so many years of hard work. Am I stupid to just let it all go? But, you know, there was a. That’s what I call my habit voice, the voice that says all that stuff. But my wisdom Voice, which is coming from inside my gut, much lower down in my being, was going, Ray, you just trust this, just trust it. You just go and do what, do what you’re being guided to do and trust. And so I was having both of those voices.
Amy Stone [00:23:21]:
Yeah, yeah, the, that’s definitely what about. And I think that’s really, especially with buying and selling a house, there’s awesome. There’s often on both sides when you buy a house and they show you how much you’re going to be spending over the time. You know, that’s a gut check moment. And also when you sell a house, it’s like, oh, you know, am I ever going to, Am I, Is it a mistake? Am I going to, Am I?
Ray Martin [00:23:43]:
It was a beautiful house in West London. It was like one of those brownstone houses in New York City. It was like, oh my God, you know, should I let this go?
Amy Stone [00:23:52]:
Yeah, it can be really hard. What did I have. And I haven’t gone through exactly what you’ve done, so. But it can be very, very hard. Any of those changes, for sure. And so as you’re doing this, what are the people around you saying? Are people around you encouraging it to do you. Or was there the occasional person that was like, I don’t know, Ray.
Ray Martin [00:24:11]:
Yeah, I mean it’s a mixture, to be honest, you know, like some naysayers going, you, you’re crazy. Why don’t you just stay and carry on with the business? You put so much into it. Other people were saying, this is the chance of a lifetime. What have you got to lose? You know, if it all goes wrong, you can just come back and start doing what you did before, you know.
Amy Stone [00:24:30]:
Yeah.
Ray Martin [00:24:31]:
Risk. And they were right. And the big thing for me that made it really easy is I didn’t have kids when I was married, okay. So I, so I didn’t, I didn’t have to think about their wellness or their how to look after them. That was, that was a. Just how it turned out was by, by good fortune. I didn’t have them at that moment.
Amy Stone [00:24:49]:
All right, so is the plan at this point you’ve got a friend who you’ve met who also wants to travel. Is it an intentional six month plan? Did you say to yourself, I’m going to do this for six months and this is. Then I’m going to come back and get back to my real life?
Ray Martin [00:25:04]:
Yeah, I did. Partly because the property market is such that if you stay out of it too long, prices go up, etc. So.
Amy Stone [00:25:10]:
Oh yeah, that’s the that’s the. You can sell your house, but you don’t have any place to live then.
Ray Martin [00:25:14]:
Yeah. So I said, I’m going to sell the house. The house did get sold. It was in a great place and lots of demand for it. And I said, I won’t buy another property before I leave because I’m not quite sure exactly where I want to live. But when I get back after six months, I’m going to buy a smaller property and start over again. So I had the intention of doing that and maybe starting another business as well.
Amy Stone [00:25:37]:
Right. So that was the familiar, familiar pattern. That’s your risk container. You’re like, I’m ready for six months. This is going to be a whim, and then I’m going to come back to what I already know works. And that gave you the confidence then to take the jump.
Ray Martin [00:25:53]:
Yeah. And I thought, I’m going on a quest to find out what I’m not understanding about life, that all of this bad stuff has happened to me.
Amy Stone [00:26:02]:
Okay.
Ray Martin [00:26:02]:
What’s the wisdom I need to draw from it all and reflect on. I didn’t quite know how that quest was going to be met. But you know Anthony Robbins, the coach who a lot of people know about in America, you know, he says, you know, the quality of your life is depending on the questions you’re asking, because the word quest is. What is the quest? I am on quest. I on.
Amy Stone [00:26:22]:
Okay. Oh, question, question. Yeah, yeah. So Anthony Robbins, Tony Robbins, he gets a lot of flack sometimes, but that is a real. That is one of the things he’s most famous for saying. I think it is a really, really powerful thing. It’s like, yeah, me too. You look at the questions that you’re asking, and sometimes putting yourself in a situation where people will push you on the questions. Like when we were talking about, what were your friends saying? And some of them were saying, you’re crazy to do this. And others were saying, chance of a lifetime and having that. The variety of questions and doesn’t necessarily make the decision making easier. It just means that you have different pools to. To figure out what feels better. Like being at a buffet, where it’s like, you try one thing and you’re like, nah, I don’t like that actually very much. And then you try the other thing. You’re like, oh, look at that. That’s the thing I like. Yeah, exactly. I think that that’s really good. So what did you do on the six months? Where did you go and what were some of the experiences you had the.
Ray Martin [00:27:21]:
First Place I headed to was Thailand.
Amy Stone [00:27:24]:
Okay.
Ray Martin [00:27:24]:
Because it was a popular country for backpackers and low cost and, you know, lots to see and do. I’d never been to Asia in my life, so I could have picked anywhere, but that’s where headed first. And just started to enjoy life without a tie. You know, the tie of the businessman.
Amy Stone [00:27:41]:
Yes.
Ray Martin [00:27:42]:
But also the four ties I describe in my book, which are our lives defined by our career, our partner or spouse, our house, our actual home, and our community of friends and family.
Amy Stone [00:27:56]:
I think that’s. Yeah. So those are the four ties.
Ray Martin [00:27:59]:
And I had none of those. None of those at all for a while.
Amy Stone [00:28:03]:
Wow.
Ray Martin [00:28:03]:
And I’d never had a life. I’d never had a life like that without those ties. I mean, I. It was literally virgin territory, mentally.
Amy Stone [00:28:11]:
Yeah. And did. It was. Okay. So you head off to Thailand.
Ray Martin [00:28:14]:
Yeah.
Amy Stone [00:28:15]:
Literally with a backpack and a laptop. You don’t have the company at any point. So you’re able to just go through experiences.
Ray Martin [00:28:22]:
Yeah. And. And pick. Choose every day how it’s going to be and where to go and what to do and who to hang out with.
Amy Stone [00:28:28]:
So you’re kind of like. You were retired.
Ray Martin [00:28:31]:
Well, it was only 45, right.
Amy Stone [00:28:33]:
Yeah. But that’s what. When people talk about retirement, they’re like, I’m gonna wake up and do that. And that is one of the reasons I brought that up is because you were only 45. Because one of the dangers of pushing retirement off to, like, 70 is that you may not be able to do the things.
Ray Martin [00:28:48]:
Exactly. I’d read someone else’s book, I can never remember those, where he talked about this concept of drawing forward some of your retirement years.
Amy Stone [00:28:55]:
Yeah.
Ray Martin [00:28:55]:
Instead of waiting until you get to 68 or 70, maybe bring two or three years of your retirement into your 40s, take a couple of years off and then go back into work and then do it again in your 50s, et cetera. And I like that idea. I thought that was pretty.
Amy Stone [00:29:08]:
Yeah. I think that that’s very good. And I think that one of the things that happens to people is that they up with those breaks, but they’re unplanned because of job security. Like, they’ll be changing jobs or something is happening or there’s an illness. And so they are taking breaks, but they’re not taking breaks to have amazing experiences. They’re not, you know, they’re not going on the backpacking trip. And that’s not to say that everybody can. Like. It’s an amazingly privileged thing to be able to have done that. I’M sure. Right. Like, so people, for anybody who’s listening, who’s like, I’d love to do that and I can’t because I don’t have a business to divest myself of. We get it.
Ray Martin [00:29:41]:
Yes.
Amy Stone [00:29:42]:
All right, so how then does. Because that’s one of the things I was going to ask you is I was like, how did you pay for this sabbatical?
Ray Martin [00:29:50]:
Yeah, I’m glad you did, because a lot of people sort of think I must have had loads of money. But I’ll give you. I can’t remember what the actual costs were 20 years ago in London, but let’s make it relative. Just use relative numbers. I think the cost of my life in London with the mortgage and the cost of living there and everything was somewhere between like five or six thousand dollars a month. Yeah. I was having to find through earning money, you know, doing work and stuff.
Amy Stone [00:30:13]:
Yeah.
Ray Martin [00:30:13]:
When I was living in Asia as a modest, frugal backpacker, really, living budget, I was living on six or seven hundred dollars a month. It was nowhere near as expensive. I could literally have lived two or three years on the same amount of money that would live one year in London.
Amy Stone [00:30:30]:
Yes, 100. And then. So then you go to Thailand, you begin to have these experiences.
Ray Martin [00:30:37]:
You.
Amy Stone [00:30:37]:
What would you say is. It’s the first time you are realizing you don’t have these connections or these ties to your life. What. What are they? What are those? The first couple of epiphanies you have. Like, how are you feeling at this time?
Ray Martin [00:30:51]:
I felt pretty anxious and scared in the first three or four months I was traveling. I was a tourist, so I was enjoying it on the surface, but inside I was thinking. I felt I was carrying a lot of guilt and shame about having been a failed husband and, okay, being unsuccessful in marriage. I felt a bit of a charlatan that people who really knew me would know I wasn’t this successful image leader. I looked in the public sphere, and so I was carrying lots of guilt and shame and feelings like that. And I realized that whilst I’d logistically altered a lot of things, I hadn’t psychologically given myself what I needed in order to actually go through the transition I was in. I read this book by William Bridges on transitions, and I learned and understood it from reading this. And so I. I authored. No, I didn’t. That’s right. I was anxious about this. And I told one or two other travelers that I’d met. One of them said to me, have I considered doing a vipassana meditation retreat? I said, what is that? I’ve never even heard of it. I didn’t know what meditation was.
Amy Stone [00:32:00]:
I haven’t considered it. Never heard of it.
Ray Martin [00:32:03]:
Yeah. So I said, no. He said, well, you go into a monaster Buddhist monastery for 10 days. You sit in silence and meditate with the monks, and they teach you about the dharma, the Buddhist way of living, the philosophy that they have, and how you can apply it to your own life. And you become very, very familiar with and observant of your own mind. And it’s very releasing. You know, I just felt the energy of the person describing it, and I could notice my skin tingling with a kind of excitement. And I thought, I don’t understand a word they’re saying, really. But I feel like that’s a really good idea. I’m gonna do that.
Amy Stone [00:32:38]:
Okay.
Ray Martin [00:32:39]:
So I just followed that feeling. Really?
Amy Stone [00:32:42]:
Did you do that in Thailand, or where did you find.
Ray Martin [00:32:44]:
Yeah, I was in Thailand. So I went to Suratani where the monastery was. Signed up.
Amy Stone [00:32:49]:
Signed up? Two. Two weeks.
Ray Martin [00:32:52]:
Ten days.
Amy Stone [00:32:52]:
Yeah, ten days. I’m very imp that now the meditation makes more sense. Because you learned from the professionals. There are a couple of Buddhist advisors that I like, will refer to, like, Tara Brock, who’s.
Ray Martin [00:33:06]:
Oh, yeah, she’s one of my teachers. Yeah, she’s.
Amy Stone [00:33:08]:
And I think. And I love her teachings, but when I offer it to other people, I say, all right, I. I want to also give you this. That if you haven’t done. I’ve not done a lot of Buddhist training, and I think that people who have. They are on a different level with you.
Ray Martin [00:33:24]:
It’s not the case, you know, And.
Amy Stone [00:33:26]:
I’m like, so give yourself some grace. If she presents this idea, if you hear her say, like, just let it flow, and you’re like, I don’t know what that means. Not feel it, you know, like, she’s done this for a long time. And so for me, it’s a target, it’s a goal. But that’s.
Ray Martin [00:33:38]:
Yeah, she. She’s one of the rock stars of the meditation world. Yeah, without doubt. You know, so clearly. Yeah, she’s like the Taylor Swift of meditation, if there was such a thing.
Amy Stone [00:33:47]:
No, I think she would really appreciate that. That moniker. And I think we can. I think that we can definitely. We can definitely go that. All right, so you were there. I think that one of the things that led. That I’m fascinated by this is that you able to make that connection that you had not done the transformational work internally. And I want to thank you for Admitting and sharing with us that you felt the disingenuity of where you were presenting, which I. And the shame, because I think that. I think that those. Those are. Those are pretty deep things that most people are not. They. Many, many people feel. And not a lot of people will admit. A lot of relationships don’t last forever. And that’s the thing I talk to people about all the time. And one of the things that I began to say to people many, many years ago is that I was like, you know, people would come to me and they were like, well, I know my, you know, divorce is not failure. And I was like, yeah, but there’s a deeper layer to that. Right. Like, you can say that over and over again, but if you grew up with a story that marriage means success.
Ray Martin [00:34:49]:
Yeah.
Amy Stone [00:34:49]:
Then. And you don’t unpack that, then all you’re doing is banging your head against the wall trying to convince yourself you’re not a failure. Right. And so. And so. And people will push back pretty hard when I present it, because you don’t know. You’re not always aware of the story that you were told when you were young and what’s holding you. Those ties that you’re talking about, they’re invisible. Yes, they’re. Yeah. And one of them. So, like, one of the things with Your ties with relationships. You’re talking about relationships, the relationship with your father. You didn’t choose for that to end. Those are. That’s like a. That’s like a process of growing up when our parents die. That’s like. We don’t. We don’t elect for that. That happens to us.
Ray Martin [00:35:29]:
Yeah, that’s right.
Amy Stone [00:35:30]:
Yeah. It’s a Korea. So, all right, so you’re running around without a tie. You go to the Buddhist meditation. You’re learning how to become an observer of your own life, which is the one of the Buddhists sitting under the tree. Allowing. The. Allowing.
Ray Martin [00:35:44]:
It’s an essential thing. I mean, maybe later, if we’ve got time, I’ll talk about that. Because I see that as being one of the. My Six Rules for happiness, which I wrote in the book. Becoming your own observer is rule number three. It’s essential. You’ve got to be able to do that.
Amy Stone [00:35:59]:
It’s one of those ideas that whenever I am reading things and picking things up from other pieces, when I find that there’s an idea that sort of jumps camp, you will find it in wildly different advice pockets. That’s when I’m like, oh, wow, that’s probably a thing that has some merit. So like journaling, you have people from all different camps. They’re like, it is helpful to write stuff down. That’s a sign that maybe it has merit. And one of those things is allowing yourself to be an observer of your own life. And then I would break that out. To which I see you doing in your stories. Allowing other people to reflect back what they see, which is, you know, sort of the awareness that you’re not always the best reporter of your own life when you listen to people. So there’s a. So when does. Okay, so we could talk about that all day and I’ll try and remember to come back to it. But I, you know, there is a limit to how long we’re going to talk. So when does a six month trip turn into a 14 year adventure? How does that happen?
Ray Martin [00:36:52]:
Well, the Vipassana retreat was a life changing, game changing event for me. And that happened at like five and a half months into the six months.
Amy Stone [00:37:00]:
Okay.
Ray Martin [00:37:01]:
And I left the monastery after 10 days. And if I’d had a, on the side of my head around knob, like a volume knob, it was as if someone had turned it down from a 10 out of 10 noise level in my head to like a 1 out of 10. I thought, wow, this feels, I felt like completely different mindset leaving than when I entered. And I knew there was something deeply transformational about that that I needed to pursue and understand at a deeper level. So I decided that six months wasn’t enough. I wasn’t ready to return to start a new business and get a new home. I hadn’t, I hadn’t met the terms of my quest yet. And so I decided to stay on.
Amy Stone [00:37:43]:
Rescue the princess from the castle.
Ray Martin [00:37:45]:
Correct.
Amy Stone [00:37:46]:
In terms of Mario.
Ray Martin [00:37:48]:
Yeah. Or the hero’s journey. Like Joseph Campbell. I hadn’t conquered or slayed the dragon.
Amy Stone [00:37:53]:
You know, that’s a, that’s a better metaphor. When you were talking about the quest, I was thinking about the kids video game where you rescue Princess Peach. But it is. Yeah.
Ray Martin [00:38:02]:
Slaying the dragon is a better, better slay the dragon. And then acquired the new wisdom to take back to the old world and share with.
Amy Stone [00:38:10]:
Yeah.
Ray Martin [00:38:10]:
And so I didn’t know what to do, but I knew I needed to stay in the orbit of this mindfulness. So I moved to a place called Chiang Mai in Thailand and joined a meditation group that met every week where I could learn and meditate with people and deepen my practice. And then those people were involved in all sorts of businesses and things and I started to get involved in Some of those. And a couple of years later, I. I’d been to places that really touched my heart emotionally. Like, for example, an elephant sanctuary in Thailand where there were rescuing elephants that have been armed or blown up by landmines and things like that. And an orphanage in Nepal where I organized the picnic with about 60 orphan kids. And I started to feel a lot of desire to help these places, and I didn’t know what to do. And then in my sitting with the what should I do to help these people? As the universe does when you’re asking questions, people are drawn to you just weirdly, at the right time. So this guy showed up in Chiang Mai who had run six marathons, and I was 49 when I met him. And he told me about what it was like to run a marathon. And as he described it, I had similar thing to the Vivasner. I just sat and tingled with it. Oh, God, this feels great. Listening to him with his marathon stories. I said, matt, his name was. I said, matt, do you think I could run a marathon? And he said, well, you look quite fit. Have you run before? I said, no. He said, well, I’ll tell you what, I know why you want to do it, because I told him about the fundraising idea that I had. He said, if you stay here for six months, I’ll train you how to run your first marathon. I said, okay. And I did. And I got a place. Unbelievable. I got a place in the New York Marathon. It was the first marathon I ever ran.
Amy Stone [00:39:54]:
That’s a good one.
Ray Martin [00:39:56]:
And I chose that one because a year or two before, I’d been on a short trip to New York and watched the end of the marathon in Central park with my friend living there. And they asked me, would you. Would you want to run the New York Marathon? I said, no, I’m never going to run a marathon in my life.
Amy Stone [00:40:12]:
Do you see these people? They look very tired.
Ray Martin [00:40:14]:
Yeah. I said, but if I did, I would definitely want to do this one. This would be the only marathon I’d consider doing. So when Matt said to me, what marathon do you want to do as your first one? I said, well, the New York one. And I put my name in the ballot because there was million people wanting a place. And I took it as a confirmation signal. But that was the right choice because a week later, I got a place, first time in the ballot. You know, it was like.
Amy Stone [00:40:37]:
It was frustrating. Tens of thousands of people who’ve been trying for a decade to get in.
Ray Martin [00:40:42]:
Yeah, I got in straight away. I knew I Just knew that was a confirmation signal that was always meant to be the case. And. And so I got to New York November 1, 2009, fully trained to run a marathon. And I’d been in touch with. I started a fundraising out organization on my own, calling people in the middle of the night basically, and daytime, all night. Raise it. I raised $15,000. So after I ran that race, I then had a year and a half to go back to Asia with all that money and deploy it at the elephant sanctuary at the orphanage, get stuff built, buy computers, buy things they needed and get it all installed. And that took me a year and a half. So now I’m like five years into the journey.
Amy Stone [00:41:23]:
Wow.
Ray Martin [00:41:23]:
It just kept. And every time I did something, it kept snowballed to something else. And the, the other thing was always.
Amy Stone [00:41:29]:
Quite exciting, very nice.
Ray Martin [00:41:33]:
And it just kept on, it just literally kept on snowballing like that. And eventually 14 years later, I returned to the UK at the end of a five year relationship that, that came to an end and it was all.
Amy Stone [00:41:45]:
Right, it was time to go back time. So that’s exactly. So you brought me right to where I was. So you didn’t come back at the end of six months and that worked into 14 years. But at that time you just, you had. Not really you living your life sort of based out of Asia, following the breadclombs, doing the thing that felt there. And it was in a. When things are in alignment, I find, I find that sometimes it can be hard for me to figure out if things are in alignment. But the signal that things are in alignment is that it feels easy. And the example I give to people is like, you know, if I want a turkey sandwich for lunch and I go into my kitchen and all of the ingredients are there, that feels really easy. Right? That’s like an alignment. If I want, like to make paella and I don’t have any of the ingredients and I’m in a town where I don’t even know where the grocery store is. That feels like it’s a lot of work because, yes, it’s not that the paella is a bad idea, it’s just that it’s not in alignment with what resources I have and the knowledge and stuff like that.
Ray Martin [00:42:43]:
Yes.
Amy Stone [00:42:43]:
So the. All right, so then, all right, there’s a relationship then there that worries you. A couple relationships. But then you find yourself at another, another transition point. You end a relationship and you’re like, you know what time to go back. Now what feels right is going back to the uk.
Ray Martin [00:43:04]:
Yeah. There’s a lot of overlapping threads here, so I’ll try and simplify it. You know it. Around about 2010, I collected 100 email addresses from people I’d met. Well, how did I get those? They were people I’d met and spent an evening with just telling them stories about how I started traveling and doing the foundation and the play in and everything. And a lot of them, I love.
Amy Stone [00:43:25]:
The story about the play in Australia. That really is a kismet story.
Ray Martin [00:43:28]:
It is. And I’ve got quite a few more from this, 14 years, which is why I ended up writing the book. But the thing was that everyone said to me, and this made me laugh when they said it, can I give you my email address? I say, yeah, Why? I said, well, because I love the stories you’ve told and if you ever write a book about it, I’d really like you to write to me and tell me. And I laughed and said, I’m not doing this to write a book. I’m doing this to heal myself, to find my quest. You know, this is for me, it’s not but one. I got to about 100 email addresses in 2008. I thought, hang on a minute, the universe wants me to write a book. It just suddenly dawned on me one day, why do people keep asking me about this stupid book? You know, I’ve got to write a book. And I thought, oh no, I don’t know anything about writing a book. It’s going to take me forever. I don’t even know what to do. And as I was having those thoughts, literally, I saw on Facebook, which was quite new at that time, that somebody was running a five day writers course in Chiang Mai, coming from New York, some big literary agent to show people the basics of writing a book. And so I wrote to that person to get a confirmation signal, should I do that or not? And they wanted. It was $1,200 for the course and it was about five days. But it looked to me like it was for seasoned writers, you know, people who had already written something, not novices. So I wrote to her and I said, two questions. One is, would I get in the way if I signed up for this course? Because I’m a novice and is it really for people who’ve got some experience and could I join on that basis? And then the second thing is, I can’t afford $1,200. I’m doing fundraising, I’m living modestly, I’ve got no income. I couldn’t, you know, I could get $500 together, but could I do it for that? And she wrote back and said yes to the first one and yes to the second one. And I knew that was my confirmation signal.
Amy Stone [00:45:19]:
Oh, wow, do that call. There’s. And there’s a hidden lesson in there that has come up a couple of times, which I’ll just draw out for the people who are listening, who are walking and running around the treadmill or wherever they are doing these things, which is that you asked. And like, sometimes we feel like we’re looking for confirmation. It can be hard to ask for things, but when you talk to people who are making things, it’s like having the. Having the distance to be able to say, I’m just gonna ask him if it’s confirmation. I’m not gonna take it personally if they say no. So there is that. All right, so this is when you decide to write the book. You’ve been gone. All right. I want to be very intentional and give you a chance to directly tell people about the book and where they can find it and all the things you do these days in your life.
Ray Martin [00:46:02]:
Well, the, the easiest way to find out about the book is at the website lifewithoutattie.com because the book’s called Life Without a Tie. And there’s a website, lifewithoutattie.com that’s the easiest way. And the reason the website’s there, to be honest, is that that got evolved after the book got published because people who read the book kept writing to me saying, can we see pictures of some of these places? There’s no photos in the book. And so that website’s got lots of photos from my actual journeys and different, different places and some of the people in it, et cetera, et cetera, so that people can see what it looked like.
Amy Stone [00:46:37]:
Very good. So you write the book. How long ago. How long ago did you release the book?
Ray Martin [00:46:42]:
Oh, you’re like 18 months ago. It’s quite recent.
Amy Stone [00:46:44]:
This is very new. This is very new. All right, so people can find that as a life without a tie. T I E, it’s on Amazon, so.
Ray Martin [00:46:52]:
It’S in books shops. But mostly, I think in America, most people buy it on Amazon.
Amy Stone [00:46:56]:
That we are a very Amazon driven group of people. That’s very fair. I’m going to put all those links for everybody in the comments. So wherever you’re looking for it, it’ll be there on the podcast player. It’ll be there on YouTube.
Ray Martin [00:47:07]:
Yeah.
Amy Stone [00:47:07]:
The easiest way for people who are watching and listening to get the links is always to Be a subscriber to my email list@imperfectadulting.com and then I send them direct to your inbox.
Ray Martin [00:47:17]:
Amy, just let me tell you as well that if anyone wants to hear my me speaking the introduction of the book, I did an audio recording which is on that website, and it’s free to download.
Amy Stone [00:47:29]:
Perfect.
Ray Martin [00:47:30]:
If someone’s thinking, oh, I’m not sure if I want to read the book or not, they can hear the introduction, then decide I don’t have to.
Amy Stone [00:47:35]:
That is a very generous offer, and I want to say thank you so much for sharing it with the audience, and I’ll make sure that we mention that. All right, Ray, are you ready for the final three questions?
Ray Martin [00:47:46]:
Yeah, I think so.
Amy Stone [00:47:47]:
I say this so ominously, but it’s really just for fun. All right, so the idea is that I just throw out this random question for you, and you answer with whatever comes to mind. Two or three words. Right.
Ray Martin [00:47:57]:
Okay.
Amy Stone [00:47:58]:
If you could only eat one meal for the rest of your life, like on repeat, you only get the same thing. What would you choose?
Ray Martin [00:48:05]:
That’s easy. Steak, mushrooms, and onions.
Amy Stone [00:48:07]:
Really? I love that you had that ready. I love.
Ray Martin [00:48:10]:
Yeah, that’s my favorite. Go to.
Amy Stone [00:48:13]:
Very good.
Ray Martin [00:48:13]:
All right.
Amy Stone [00:48:14]:
Very good. That’s also. That’s a very bachelor meal. It’s like steak on the grill. All right, very good. Do you consider yourself a morning person or a late night person?
Ray Martin [00:48:23]:
Definitely a morning person.
Amy Stone [00:48:24]:
Morning person.
Ray Martin [00:48:25]:
Late night. I’m ready to just chill. Yeah.
Amy Stone [00:48:28]:
Very good. All right. Do you. You’ve done all of these things. You’ve had, like, these amazing experience. Do you still have a bucket list or, like, some ideas of things that you still want to do and hope to experience? And if so, are you willing to share with us one of the things that is still out there that you want to do?
Ray Martin [00:48:43]:
Yeah. Yeah. Right now, what’s coming to the top of my bucket list is I want to learn how to play the guitar.
Amy Stone [00:48:49]:
Very nice.
Ray Martin [00:48:50]:
Yeah, very nice. I have no idea how I’m going to do that, but that’s one of the things that’s next.
Amy Stone [00:48:55]:
I think that’s an eminently doable thing because it’s like a lot of people do it, like, so, you know, you buy a guitar, you find a teacher, you mess around.
Ray Martin [00:49:02]:
Yeah, right, right.
Amy Stone [00:49:04]:
Cut your fingernails.
Ray Martin [00:49:05]:
Yeah.
Amy Stone [00:49:05]:
You know, that’s how that goes. All right, that’s it. Ray Martin, thank you so much for being a wonderful guest on the show today.
Ray Martin [00:49:11]:
My pleasure. Thank you.
Amy Stone [00:49:12]:
Thank you for listening today. I hope that you enjoy the show. And before I go, I want to encourage you to become a bigger part of the conversation. Obviously, subscribe wherever you’re listening to the show. Listen to more episodes. That’d be great. Obvi. Again, please write a review and tell your friends about the show. That truly is a great help for getting the show in front of new people. Okay, but more fun for you yourself. Head over to ImperfectAdulting.com and join the email community. You’ll get some some free stuff right away, and that way you’ll begin to get the emails about the podcast. This includes the links for the special offers from the guests and it’s the only way to get that. Also, if you aren’t in the mood to listen, I actually include an article directly in those emails. Now, if you love this and you crave more time with me, Amy, as a coach, a mentor, or just adultier adult numero ono, check out the Video Village. If you have a story you want to share with the listeners, I’d love to hear from you. I have an open application. Just let me know you want it. And that’s a wrap for today. Until next time. Remember, the journey is the destination. Ralph Waldo Emerson said that, not me. Well, until just now I did just say it. But what I want you to hear today is that if your adulting journey isn’t going the way you expected, that may not mean that you’re lost. It may just mean that you’re on your way. This is Amy Stone signing off. The Imperfect Adulting Podcast is created and produced by Amy Stone and Amy says so. Anything expressed on this show is offered as entertainment, and the views of the guests may not always represent the ideas and viewpoints of the host. That’s me. Amy does not intend or hold herself out to provide professional advice or recommendations of any kind. In the end, you and you alone need to make those kinds of decisions based on your personal and individual situation, needs, circumstances and comfort level.