The smell of burning fuel filled her nostrils as flames engulfed the cockpit around her. Twenty-nine-year-old Sheryl Ramstad had exactly twenty seconds to make decisions that would determine whether she lived or died. What happened in those moments—and the choices she made in the months and years that followed—would completely reshape not just her career path, but her entire understanding of what it means to live with purpose.
When we think about the pivotal moments that define our lives, we often imagine them as carefully planned decisions: choosing a college, accepting a job offer, or deciding to start a family. But sometimes the most transformative experiences arrive without warning, forcing us to discover reserves of strength and clarity we never knew we possessed. Sheryl’s story of surviving a plane crash during her first solo flight illustrates how unexpected challenges can become the catalyst for profound personal growth and radical life changes.
The federal prosecutor who emerged from that burning plane would eventually become a marathon runner, mountain climber, judge, and ultimately a nurse—each transformation building on lessons learned from that terrifying July afternoon in 1979. Her journey reveals how our response to life’s most difficult moments often becomes the foundation for our greatest contributions to the world.
When Crisis Reveals Character
Before the crash, Sheryl embodied the driven, Type-A professional. She had known since age twelve that she wanted to be a lawyer, and by her late twenties had built a successful career as a federal prosecutor. Her days were scheduled to the minute, including detailed lists of post-flight activities that would never be completed.
“I live lists,” Sheryl said. “In fact, I had a list of what I was going to do after my first solo. And it was down to the minute of how many minutes it would take to go to the gym, how many minutes to get groceries, how many minutes to prepare for a meeting the fall following Monday.”
The engine failure that ended her first solo flight stripped away every element of control that had defined her existence. During those twenty seconds of descent, with no safe landing options in sight, Sheryl made a critical decision that saved not only her life but the lives of countless others below. Rather than pulling back on the throttle—an instinctive response that would have sent the plane into a fatal nose dive—she maintained landing speed and accepted that she might not survive.
“I didn’t think I’d survive at that point, but I didn’t want to take others with me,” Sheryl said. The choice to prioritize others’ safety over her own desperate situation revealed a character depth that would guide every major decision in her life moving forward.
The Power of Asking “What Next?”
Recovery from burns covering much of her body required months of hospitalization and years of physical therapy. For someone accustomed to fierce independence, the experience of total dependence was perhaps as challenging as the physical pain itself. Hospital staff often spoke over her rather than including her in treatment decisions, creating a sense of powerlessness that would later influence her approach to patient care.
Yet rather than dwelling on the trauma or questioning why the accident happened, Sheryl developed a philosophy that would become her guiding principle: “Don’t ask why me, but what next?”
This shift from victim mentality to forward-thinking action became the cornerstone of every subsequent life change. When Amy Stone asked what guided her decisions throughout her recovery and beyond, Sheryl explained: “The prevalent thought I kept having was to not ask, why me? But what next? And that that’s what guided me throughout the rest of my decisions was what next? Not to back and regret anything, but to try to learn from it and use it in a positive way.”
This mindset transformation illustrates how our internal response to external circumstances ultimately determines our trajectory more than the circumstances themselves. Rather than becoming defined by what happened to her, Sheryl allowed the experience to reveal what she was capable of becoming.
From Personal Experience to Universal Service
The most remarkable aspect of Sheryl’s story lies not in surviving the crash itself, but in how she channeled that experience into service for others facing similar challenges. After years of volunteering at the burn unit where she had been treated, she made a decision that stunned her colleagues and family: she resigned from her position as a sitting judge to pursue nursing school.
“Nobody in the school of nursing at the University of Minnesota had ever done that,” Sheryl noted about her transition from judge to nursing student at age 62. The decision seemed incomprehensible to others, including her brother, who pointed out that “people live their lifetime and do their whole career to become a judge, and why are you giving that up?”
But Sheryl’s experience as a patient had revealed gaps in the healthcare system that she felt called to address. Her frustration with being excluded from her own treatment decisions motivated her to become the kind of healthcare provider she wished she had encountered during her recovery.
The career change required four years of taking prerequisites while serving as a full-time judge, followed by nursing school and eventually earning a doctorate. This extraordinary commitment to starting over professionally in her sixties demonstrates how authentic purpose often emerges from our most difficult experiences.
Her work conducting support groups for burn survivors revealed a surprising pattern: “To a person, everybody said that they wouldn’t have given up the experience for anything because they feel like they’ve benefited from it,” Sheryl observed. “They wouldn’t want to go through it again because it was horrific. But they felt like they’d learned something and they were better people because of it.”
The Ripple Effect of Transformed Lives
Perhaps the most powerful validation of Sheryl’s life choices came through unexpected full-circle moments. While conducting a support group years later, a woman approached her saying, “We lived in that neighborhood where your plane crashed… we were standing there praying right with him when you were lying there on the sidewalk.”
These encounters reinforced Sheryl’s belief that her survival and subsequent choices had meaning beyond her personal journey. Her transformation from crash victim to healthcare advocate created ripple effects that touched lives she never could have imagined from her hospital bed decades earlier.
The story also demonstrates how crisis can reveal not just personal strength, but a deeper understanding of our interconnectedness. Sheryl’s instant decision to avoid populated areas during her crash, her gratitude toward first responders, and her eventual career dedicated to helping other trauma survivors all reflect a worldview shaped by recognizing how much we depend on each other during our most vulnerable moments.
Finding Meaning in the Unexpected
Sheryl’s journey from that burning cockpit to a life of expanded purpose illustrates a profound truth about human resilience: we often discover who we’re meant to become only after our original plans are completely disrupted. Her decision to ask “what next?” rather than “why me?” created space for growth that might never have occurred within the boundaries of her carefully planned legal career.
The federal prosecutor who took flying lessons for practical safety reasons could never have imagined that the crash would eventually lead her to touch thousands of lives through healthcare, mentorship, and advocacy. Each major life transition—from survivor to marathon runner, from judge to nursing student, from patient to caregiver—built upon lessons learned during those twenty seconds when everything changed.
Her story reminds us that life’s most difficult moments often contain the seeds of our greatest contributions. The question isn’t whether we’ll face unexpected challenges, but whether we’ll have the courage to ask “what next?” when our original plans no longer serve us. Sometimes the most meaningful life changes begin not with careful planning, but with the simple decision to keep moving forward into an uncertain but purposeful future.
This article was inspired by an interview with Sheryl Ramstad and Amy Stone on The Art of Imperfect Adulting podcast. https://imperfect-adulting.captivate.fm/listen https://www.youtube.com/@imperfectadulting To hear more compelling conversations like this one and receive special offers from our guests directly to your inbox, join our email community today.
Full Interview Transcript: How a Near-Death Experience Transformed My Life and Career with Sheryl Ramstad
Amy Stone [00:00:05]:
Sheryl Ramstad. Welcome to the art of imperfect adulting. I’m so happy you’re here. Are you ready for a fun chat?
Sheryl Ramstad [00:00:11]:
I sure am. And I’m so excited to be here and to be visiting with you, Amy. It’s a pleasure.
Amy Stone [00:00:17]:
Oh, thank you. I start all of my conversations with my guests the very same way I ask people what part of the world they call home. So tell us where you are.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:00:26]:
I am in the bold north, also known as the land of 10,000 lakes, which is Minnesota.
Amy Stone [00:00:33]:
Ah, very nice. Very, very nice. I have one more warm up question, which is what is the most recent compliment you gave someone? A word of kindness or something nice, you said, even if it was just something small from earlier today.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:00:50]:
Well, as a matter of fact, it was earlier today. My husband’s been hospitalized and I had wonderful respir therapist who literally saved his life. So I came home after sleeping in the hospital all night. I came home, baked some chocolate chip cookies and took them to her and said, thank you so much. You saved my husband’s life.
Amy Stone [00:01:11]:
Holy moly. I’ve been asking this question for a couple of weeks now, but that is, that is an intense story. You’ve had quite a 24 hour period. Wow. I thanked you when we started for taking time out of your day, but I am. You’ve got a lot going on. I’m very thankful that you would make a break in your day to day you an interview.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:01:28]:
I’m very thankful that he’s doing okay, thanks to that therapist.
Amy Stone [00:01:31]:
Yeah, I can imagine. I can imagine. All right, topic of the day is that. Well, let’s back up. All right, so on the show, I share stories of choices and changes, which is a really, really broad description. I can break it down in a bunch of different ways. And one of the ways that I can classify these discussions is if we split the choices into things people do electively. They make up their mind and they’re making a choice and a change on their own because they want something to change in their life. The other group can be classified as changes we make because things happen to us, things that are out of control. And that’s where yours falls in. When you were 29, you were in a plane crash and we’re going to talk about some of the ways that that changed your life. Does that sound good?
Sheryl Ramstad [00:02:17]:
It does. And actually there were some elective changes that transpired after that as a result of the plane crash. So I have a bit of both in my life.
Amy Stone [00:02:25]:
I think everyone, you know, everyone has both. And it’s you know, it’s an arbitrary designation because you do, you have the choices. And there is that. But you clearly did not wake up and say, you know what I’m going to do today is be in a plane crash. And so that is, that is where I sort of generally break it down versus a change that’s like, hey, I’m going to change my relationship, I’m going to go back to school. Those sort of really self directed decisions. But let’s go back to the beginning. I would like to know about you when you were in your 20s, before all this happened. I think when this happened you were finished with school. But tell us about what you were studying, what your dreams were, what was going on in your relationships, marriage. What were your dreams for yourself, professionally and personally? Who were you like when you were in your 20s?
Sheryl Ramstad [00:03:18]:
Well, I at the age of 12 decided I wanted to be a lawyer. And so I followed that path to law school after graduating from the University of Minnesota and started out in the criminal law field as a public defender for Hennepin county, which is the Minneapolis area. Then became a federal prosecutor, which is the position that I was in when I was in the airplane crash. My dreams were to be in the trial courtroom as much as I could. I loved it, I thrived on it. It was exciting, exhilarating. It was living out Nancy Drew and Perry Mason, my 12 year, 12 year old history. And, and there I was and I was doing well and I was getting, you know, victories in the courtroom and seeing that justice was done. And so it was, it was an exciting time for me, really the highlight. Three years before my crash, I was married to a man who I had met in the Twin Cities and I was new to the Twin Cities, originally from North Dakota and so got to know him and, and we had planned, he was a pilot already. His dad was an aviation expert in the area. And we had planned our lifestyle would be to own a private plane, to be able to take it on vacations and to various places, business and otherwise we were going and that I would be able to be stand in if something should happen to him. So that was my reason for taking flying lessons, was to be abundantly careful that if anything ever happened and the two of us were in a plane and something went wrong, I could take over.
Amy Stone [00:05:02]:
That is, that’s a big part of the story because I shared that you were in a plane crash and this, but you, one of the things that makes this unique is that you were not a passenger in a plane that somebody else was Flying. You were piloting. This happened in 1979. Me demonstrating that I did my homework and read chunks of the book. I am curious if there were a lot of women going through flight training in 1979.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:05:37]:
It’s interesting, Amy. The only way I would know that is from my ground school. And I would say maybe 25% of the ground school class that I took at the University of Minnesota were women.
Amy Stone [00:05:48]:
Oh, that’s good.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:05:49]:
Yeah. But when you’re taking lessons that you and the instructor and you’re really not cognizant of who else is out there learning. So I would say a handful, but it wasn’t a common thing.
Amy Stone [00:06:01]:
I was just. I mean, and when I was putting this together, I was thinking about it because the. The commercial pilot split is very much, you know, it’s pretty public, you know, the majority. Majority men. And, you know, it’s a big deal when there is like an all female crew in days even so many years forward. But then when I thought about it, I was like, yeah, but, you know, there could have been. This is small planes and in rural places, there’s no. There’s no reason that there wouldn’t have been maybe a lot of women flying. So I really just didn’t know. And that’s why I was like, let me ask whether or not this was something that. That was pretty common because. Yeah, no, absolutely. So the idea was you were married, you guys were putting together this dream life, you were gonna fly, get a private plane to use for your. Your passions and do these things. That was the driver of this flight. You were in flight school is how this happens. And this is your first solo flight. And so you mention in the first page of your book that your mom had concerns about your safety flying at the time. Do you remember getting any other pushback from anybody else in your community, social, family, about you doing taking flying lessons?
Sheryl Ramstad [00:07:23]:
Well, I did it kind of under the radar. I wasn’t broadcasting it. I didn’t have a network of other women who were flying. And so I really wasn’t making others aware of it. But my mother and I were very close, and she was a worrier and was worried about my flying, and so that’s why she brought up the topic. The day before we went out, I went out for my first solo, and I tried to reassure her that it’s safer than driving a car or walking across the street, although I’m not sure I convinced her.
Amy Stone [00:07:57]:
Yeah, well, and did you have. I mean, you were in the throes of doing it and you it sounds to me that you were a very, very confident person with an independent mind, pursuing a career in law, things like that. But did you have, did you have concerns or did you feel like it was just a very, very safe thing that you were doing?
Sheryl Ramstad [00:08:18]:
I had confidence in my skills. I’m a careful person, I’m a precise person. I listened attentively. I’m a good student. My instructor had assured me that I was ready and I did. When you do a solo flight, you go up with your instructor initially and fly around the field. And then he got out and it was my turn to take control of the plane. The solo consists of doing three touch and goes, which means that you fly in a flight pattern rectangular around the airfield. You go out a ways and then you come back 90 degrees and then you come back and then you’re cleared for final and you touch down briefly and then you take off again. So you do that two times. Well, the first two touch and goes that I did were flawless. They were perfect. And on my third touch and go, I was, had taken off, gone downwind and was cleared for final when all of a sudden, silence. The engine quit. First it sputtered and then it quit. And I had time for three communications with the tower. I said, the engine’s sputtering, the engines quit. Help. I can’t stop it. And there was about a 20 second lag between the time I said that and the time that the crash occurred. So during that time, the air traffic controller was trying to clear the airspace so that other planes would get out of my way because they knew I in trouble. And during that time I, I did something that really saved my life, which is I didn’t pull back on the throttle like a lot of new pilots would do because you’d think that that would bring the nose of the plane up. Well, that would have cost me my life because if you bring the nose of the plane up, it spirals down you nose, dive into the ground and you’re gone. But when it happened, when this engine quit, I was over the Interstate 94, the 30, the Mississippi river, our state capital building. And there was no place to put it down. There was really no place that looked like it would be safe. I didn’t think I’d survive at that point, but I didn’t want to take others with me. And the river. It was the 4th of July weekend, Saturday, 4 o’ clock in the afternoon on the 4th of July weekend. And the river was full of boats with people on them. The freeway was full of cars and obviously the state capital is an immovable building. And then there was this residential area close by. So I just set the plane at landing speed and 20 seconds was on my way down. And on the way down, a power line took off the wing and that sprayed the fuel all over the cockpit in which I was sitting. The tank exploded and it. I was in an inferno and had no. No place to go. But the plane, fortunately, hit a tree because it brought me to a stop. And again, I realized that I was going to burn up alive. That’s what I thought. And so I reacted very immediately to unlatch the door. The doors had jammed during the impact. And so I again, instinctively took all my body weight, threw it against the door that was on fire, and climbed. And fortunately, miraculously, it popped open and I was able to climb out through the fire, my hair on fire, my face, my whole body on fire, and get out safely. And that’s when people from the neighborhood started gathering because they had felt their houses shake when this plane was going down. It was a densely populated residential area. And just to give you an idea of how fortunate it was that I didn’t kill myself or others, the plane crashed 10ft from a woman sunbathing in her backyard on that beautiful. So people knew and they started rushing out to see what had happened.
Amy Stone [00:12:25]:
That is one of the things that I find really interesting about this is that you have such a very clear memory of the moments. There were two things that came to mind actually, when I was reading it. One was, I’ve never experienced anything like this at all. And so I have no concept of it. But you knew you were crashing, and so you had the pressure and the stress and you were in it. It’s like the impending. It wasn’t like there’s like a hang time, hang time. It wasn’t like, oh, gosh, something’s wrong, and then it’s over. You had some stuff you had to deal with, and I thought that must have been incredibly stressful. But the other thing that came to mind for me is that often when people go through really, really stressful, acute things where they are hurt, they don’t have a clear memory of what happened right before. And I. So when I was reading this and looking at the detail of everything that happened, I was like, I. That is very. I don’t know if that’s good or bad that you have a clear memory of it. Was it always like that or was some of it reconstructed from what people told you after?
Sheryl Ramstad [00:13:33]:
It was always indelibly in my mind. And if. If I. I could describe it today, I could reenact it today. It’s so vivid in my mind. Every second of that 20 seconds was just imprinted on my mind, in my mind. So, and. And even after I got out and was on fire and this man helped me across the street because I. He was a commercial pilot and he came over and wanted to make sure nobody else was on board the plane. And I said, no, it was my first solo. Why did the engine quit? And his comment to me was, I don’t know. But I’m a commercial pilot. I just want you to know you did a damn good job of flying because you could have killed yourself and others in the neighborhood. Well, he walked me across the street where there was a Catholic church and the priest came out and gave me last rites as I collapsed on the sidewalk. I remember that very vividly. I remember the people backing away as if I had a contagious disease as I was walking across the street because, you know, they didn’t know what to do. But this man was kind enough to come forward and was very comforting to me. Then I remember the fire chief coming and he asked me specifically who. Who should I notify? And I told him because I remembered my mother’s conversation with me the day before. Please do not contact my parents. Have my brother do that. Please contact my brother to have him talk to my parents. So I. Again, it was very clear in my mind when I started to fade was when I got to the hospital. The ambulance came and took me to the hospital, to the burn unit about mile from the crash site. And when I was in there, I remember that they were cutting off my clothing, which should, you know, what was left of it, so that they could get out the burns. And a nurse came in and said, there’s a t. There’s a reporter from the local newspaper who wants to come in and take pictures and interview you. And I just remember the vivid thought of, oh, please don’t, please don’t. And buddy in the room said, no, she’s no condition for that. And that’s when I started fading. I think they gave me pain medication and they started working on cleaning up my burns. So at that point, until I woke up in my room the middle of the night and I was up in the burn center, saw my mom sitting there with the Bible in her lap. They had. She had flown. She and my dad had chartered a private plane to get down from their lake cabin. And, you know, that’s the next memory I have of what happened. And then there were gaps thereafter. There was a period of about two weeks when they said my life was in the balance. I had a terrible infection, peritonitis. And they said the doctors gave me a 1% chance of surviving. And that is a gap in my mind memory too. But otherwise, I remember so much about that experience. It’s never going to leave me.
Amy Stone [00:16:39]:
It’s an incredible experience and one that most people will never go through, which is a thing to be thankful for those of us who have not experienced it. And I say that mostly because I don’t think there’s any way for me to even imagine what any part of this was or what something like this, the impact that it would have on the decisions that you make moving forward, because it’s like a stack of decisions and a stack of situations that are out of your control. Before the crash, it sounds like you were a very driven person. I’m going to put you in the category of Type A. Is that accurate?
Sheryl Ramstad [00:17:24]:
Very accurate. I live lists. In fact, I had a list of what I was going to do after my first solo. And it was down to the minute of how many minutes it would take to go to the gym, how many minutes to get groceries, how many minutes to prepare for a meeting the fall following Monday. And. And I was determined, didn’t think that anything would. Could be done by anyone else. Little did I know it would wait months before I’d be able to ever do anything on that list again.
Amy Stone [00:17:51]:
Oh, my goodness. Well, one of the. One of the stereotypes of modern people in medicine is that driven Type A people struggle to be sick and receive care, especially in hospitals. And so while it’s one thing to say, of course you were very lucky and fortunate to make it out of this catastrophic event, but share a little bit about how long you were in the hospital and some of that struggle, which you do bring up, which is to. That you were not in control of driving this medical process in the hospital. People were coming in and talking over you and around you and not asking you for your opinions. How did that go?
Sheryl Ramstad [00:18:38]:
It was very frustrating, very confusing. I remember getting out of this. I had seven major surgeries, and I remember getting out of the operating room and not knowing what the outcome was and nobody really talking to me. They were kind of talking over me and wondering what. What had happened in the, in the operating room. I remember some of the people who were very. There was. There were a few people who were very kind, but I remember people who, you know, my hand was bandaged because they were going to amputate this hand. It was burned right down to the bone. And the doctor threw some skin on, thinking that as a trial lawyer, I used my hands. And so he was hoping that he could save it. Fortunately for me, it did. He did. But I remember the person who. The nurse’s aide who came in and yelled at me because I was trying to pick up something with his bandaged hand and dropped it. And so I remember insensitive things like that. I remember feeling like I wasn’t part of the treatment team, that it was something being done to me rather than with me. And truthfully, that’s what caused me. Years later, I donated or volunteered time to go up to the burn unit for many years while I pursued my career. We adopted three children. And eventually, when I was sitting as a judge full time, I decided, you know, if not now, when I need to go up to that burn unit where I was a patient and I need to give back, because I understand what those people are going through and most people don’t, and that’s. That’s my responsibility. And so I started taking prerequisites for nursing as a second career, which, you know, to go from being a judge to a nurse. Nobody does that. Nobody in the school of nursing at the University of Minnesota had ever done that. Took me four years of taking one prerequisite each semester for that entire period, I was on the bench working full time. And when I applied, I thought, you know, why would they accept me? I’m 62 years old. I don’t, you know, think that they’d want to spend the resources training me at this point. But I was very motivated, I felt very led to do that. And lo and behold, and I got my acceptance letter again. I hadn’t told anybody I was doing this. I’d be. For four years, I hadn’t said what my aspiration was. And so I resigned my judgeship and went back to school full time. And there were rumors running rampant that I was dying of cancer. People couldn’t figure it out, because even my brother said, cheryl, people live their lifetime and do their whole career to become a judge, and why are you giving that up? But I really felt in my heart that I needed to do that. And, you know, there were ways in which it was really affirmed. Amy, there’s. I did a. One of the responsibilities I had. I went on and got my nursing degree, and then I went on and got my doctorate. So I was in school for five years at the University of Minnesota, and we had certain choices along the way. And one choice was where I wanted to do my practicum, and I wanted to go back to the burn unit where I’d been a patient. And then I. They offered me a job there part time while I was going to finish my MAST or my doctorate. And one of the things they asked me to do was conduct a support group for burn survivors and their spouses and family. And one man who I’d been helping. Gas can blew up in his face, badly burned, was in that support group meeting one night with his wife. And she came over and she said, you know, I’ve heard so much about you from Jeff. She said, I’m so glad to meet you. She said, you know, we were. We lived in that neighborhood where your plane crashed. And I was gonna. I was scheduled to go to church in that very Catholic church where the priest came out and gave you last rights. And in fact, we were standing there praying right with him when you were lying there on the sidewalk. So, you know, there were ways in which I felt like it was full circle, and I was able to help others who were going through similar things. Similarly, the doctor called me back on a number of occasions when there were people who wanted to know if they’d ever run again. And one of the things I did as part of my recovery, a nurse had seen a picture of me on my bed stand of me running Bonnie Bell race a week before the crash. And literally, I had been training for a marathon the morning of my crash and fighting for my survival by that night. So she said to me, she said, wanting to give me hope, cheryl, in two years, you’ll be running that marathon, and I’ll be at the finish line to cheer you on, well, that became my goal. And so when others wanted to know if they’d ever be able to exercise, run, ride a bike, whatever, play basketball, the doctor would call me and say, could you go in and see this patient, please, and just share with the patient your experience and how you did it? So. So I felt like it was a doorway to being able to help others through things that I had learned the hard way. It also gave me a different perspective. When I got my doctorate in nursing, I went into teaching nursing at three colleges. And I shared with those nursing students the importance of including patients as part of the team and for them to know what was going on and the communication that has to take place between the patient and the care provider in order to really do your job in an appropriate way.
Amy Stone [00:24:20]:
Absolutely. Which, as an outsider, someone who’s not in the medical system at all and have had a generally very healthy life. So my exposure to this is, you know, very, very minimal. But it just seems like such a very first of all, it’s in many, many movies, folks, but also it seems like it makes a lot of sense. And it’s one of the things that is a through line for this show in my own little way, which is to elevate the voice of people with experience alongside the voices of professionals and experts. So it’s not really an or, but. And, you know, people can have very professional experiences, but those who have walked the walk, they. They have a lot to add. They have a lot to add. And so I think that’s good. I’m going to take a second and invite the audience to join us on social. So for every episode, I post a discussion question. This is an amazing story of Sheryl’s, of an event in her life and a beautiful life she led. So come join us on social media. Join the conversation. I’ll be there. I’ll invite Sheryl there. There’ll be other people from the community in there. It’s super fun. If you don’t have the social accounts, if you’re not already connected, they’re in the show notes. So, coming back to the story, I don’t have any experience in being in the burn unit or being recovering from a plane crash, but not even a little bit, clearly, because you’re talking to me today and you’ve built this amazing life that we’ve talked a little bit about. You do recover. You go on to run marathons, you climb mountains, you build an amazing family, you adopt three kids. You mentioned that. Build a career in law, you’re a judge, you go back to school, you become a nurse, and you get a doctorate in nursing. Amazing. I love it. It’s amazing. Would you say that your drive increased after the accident and the recovery, or was that not the thing that changed? Were you just as driven before and you just continued to be driven after the recovery?
Sheryl Ramstad [00:26:27]:
I would say that the prevalent thought I kept having was to not ask, why me? But what next? And that that’s what guided me throughout the rest of my decisions was what next? Not to back and regret anything, but to try to learn from it and use it in a positive way to say, what next? What can I do next?
Amy Stone [00:26:53]:
That’s a really interesting way to say that. That’s one of the techniques that people use to teach how to move through really stressful situations, right? So, you know, the only way out is through. So it doesn’t Matter kind of how you got there. It’s like what do know? What is the goal and how are you going to get there? So I mentioned this before, there’s like a stack of choices and this is like a really, really complex, vibrant story of the things that, that you have done in your life. And many of the things that we’re talking about are places where you chose to push the limits or push beyond a boundary. Like I’m going to learn how to fly, I’m going to run a marathon, I’m going to be a judge, I’m going to climb a mountain. But I actually want to talk a little bit about the time when you were in the hospital healing, because I’m not the end all, be all expert on human experience. But I do think that most people have seasons of hardship in their life, times in their life where the awareness that there’s even a choice at all in front of them is kind of hard to see. And so I just think sometimes it doesn’t feel like there’s a choice. And I wondered if when you were in the hospital and you were recovering, you were surrounded by people, but still the job of healing was yours and something only you could do for yourself. There was a point where it was your body and your experience. So I had a question which is whether or not you had any guidance or thoughts that would be helpful or uplifting for people who might feel like they’re in a season where there are no choices in front of them for what it felt like to you to be living in that moment and making that repetitive choice to keep persevering moment after moment.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:28:40]:
That’s an excellent question. And I’d say that three things got me through it. My faith, my family and my friends. I was very blessed that those people in my life really encouraged me. They were at my bedside, they brought me pizzas in the burn unit when I was capable of eating. They kept vigil when I was totally out of it during that two week time when they didn’t know if I’d survive. And you know, Amy, it’s really interesting because to this day, when I read about or hear about or see on the television about a plane crash, I want to reach out to those family members. I want to reach out to those people because people reached out to me. In the burn center, there was a Republic Airlines pilot, I remember, who the head nurse on the unit called in to talk with me while I was lying in bed. And I mean, this man had an eye that was deformed, his ear was half off. He was visibly very, very burned. But nonetheless he came and he came to let me know there was life after burns. And I think that’s so important to let people know who are going through something similar to what you’ve gone through, that there is a life thereafter. And that you need to ask not what, why me? But what next?
Amy Stone [00:30:04]:
And I think that in that context, one of the things about finding somebody as an example of what is coming is that there’s several mentors in that spot. There can be people who are at a similar point in the journey who are sharing the actual hardship. But when he came, he was showing you that there would be a change and an end, there would be a transition, that you would not always be in the burn unit, so to speak.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:30:32]:
Exactly. And there was a federal judge who, as I mentioned, I was a federal prosecutor and I had the utmost respect. He was the head of the federal bench and he would stop by at six o’ clock in the morning. Now there were no visitors, non family allowed, but he looked like central casting for a judge. He had white hair, just the kindest face. He’d put on the garments to come into the burn unit, you know, put on the hat that looked like a shower cap, the gown, the shoe covers. And he shared with me that during the war he had been burned badly by swimming through a sea of oil that was on fire.
Amy Stone [00:31:10]:
Oh my goodness.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:31:11]:
I know. And that was so important to me. And he would constantly send me notes. He’d. His name was Judge Edward Devitt. And he’d send me notes, sincerely, Ed, your clipping agent. And he’d send me pictures of things that I’d been in magazines for, you know, law related things. And so the first place that I wanted to go, when I got out of the burn unit after two and a half months there, my parents took me to the federal courthouse to walk into his chambers. And, and that was important to me because that had been an incentive. And then my first appearance, it took me a while to get back into the courtroom. I could start one hour a day and then one hour a week and then gradually build up. My, my first case was in front of him when I was in the courtroom. And he called up all these lawyers from New York that were, we were trying a, a very large tax case. And he said, I just want to welcome Ms. Ramstead back into the courtroom. This is her first time since she was in this crash and we’re so glad to have you back here. Meant the world. So, yeah, I, I totally give Credit to those people who walked me through it, who walked the journey with me, who helped me along the way.
Amy Stone [00:32:31]:
Yeah, I mean a big chunk of it you had to do by yourself because it happened to your body. But it’s clear that you had a very, very enormous amount of support. This was a very public event in the town that you were in. You put pictures that were in the newspaper of the crash. It’s clear that there was definitely an element of being in the spotlight because. Because it happened, so to speak, not. Not probably what you were hoping to be in the spotlight for. Before this happened. You would have been looking for more professional, professional highlights to be. To be the reason you would have been in the newspaper.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:33:08]:
The reason I think I chose some of these activities that I chose some of these challenges. I needed to prove to people because I’d been in fiercely independent person and I needed to prove to other people that I was okay, that they could talk to me. I mean, I had ace bandages up and down my arms and legs. Was obvious I’d been burned. But I had to prove to people that I was still capable of doing things that I would have done before. And so that’s why I did some of the activities that I did. I wanted to show people the marathon training. My best friend was a television anchor who had read, had the story of my crash on the air and my name hadn’t even been released. She was one of the people who came over to the hospital, brought me pizzas and she did a three part series that was shown throughout the state on our marathon training over months that we got ready for our first marathon. And those were ways in which I could show others that I was still the same person inside. And even though my body outside looked different and was. And I’d gone through this and it made me more sensitive to others who have changes to their lives and to realizing that that loss of identity for me was my independence. You mentioned being totally dependent on the burn crew and the nurses and others that were taking care of me. That’s a pretty helpless feeling. And so I was ready to get back on my feet. It took me a while. Took me two years of daily physical therapy to get the use of my hand back and my arms. I couldn’t stand up straight. And so it, it was a day by day thing. And yet I realized that I needed to do it. Nobody could do it for me. It was. It was much to do and the.
Amy Stone [00:35:06]:
To choose the physical challenges because one of the things that happens when we, when we replaced the Skin. And when you went into the burn unit, your, your training for the marathon, did you have mobility and, and sweating challenges, like pressure? Like, it’s like it was one. I have a very close friend who was as a runner and he does extreme endurance events, but he, he doesn’t sweat as much because he had his skin. A bunch of his skin was burned, and that’s how I am aware of that. But so, so you’re fiercely independent. You’re training for extreme endurance events. And part of this is that your actual challenge is slightly different from somebody who has not gone through what you have gone through. You might at some point have to say, hey, this I. My body doesn’t work the same way yours does.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:35:55]:
Exactly. Like as you mentioned, perspiring. You perspiring through your head, but none of your skin that’s been grafted. My arms are grafted. My hands, my legs have been burned. And none of that neck skin allows perspiration to go through it. So the only cooling mechanism is the top of my head. Wow. And then to compound that, I had to wear a full body suit for two years every day. Zipped up the front, long sleeved, of course, in the summer, gloves, tights. And so that added, you know, additional problem to overcome the heat because that was it.
Amy Stone [00:36:39]:
It sounds like it was very hot. Yeah, sounds like. And also an outward sign that something was different. So it was not something you could hide from people. There was an outward indication that something was different, which is. Puts you in the spot, living through it. To continually be facing the fact that people are mirroring back to you that they’re aware that something is different.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:37:03]:
That’s very true. In fact, I remember going into the burn clinic one day and you know, people, I’d be. I remember standing in the cafeteria line and somebody turned to me and, and looked at my body and they said, whatever happened to you? And I went to the burn clinic and I said to the doctor, I didn’t know how to answer it. How do I answer that? And he said, just look at him and say, do I know you? And put the question right back at them. And yes, that was, that became my answer because, you know, I understood when it was children, right.
Amy Stone [00:37:34]:
They get a pass. Yeah.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:37:35]:
And they, and you explain and you, you try not to frighten them, but you explain. But adults who don’t know you, who ask those questions, you just have to deflect it to protect yourself. At least I did.
Amy Stone [00:37:49]:
Yeah. No, it’s. I, I teach, I offer that to my friends and my children. And everybody in my family, when somebody comes out with you with something that’s generally not very kind and a little combative, the tool is to, you know, turn it back to them, you know, and be like, hey, excuse me, what you know, or can you say it again? You know, did you mean to call me out in public as a total stranger there friend? And I wish I could say that I was surprised that somebody had said that to you as a stranger in public, but I’m not, unfortunately. People say the craziest things to each other and that’s just part of the human experience. All right, so one of the things that surprised me, that came up in this book, and it’s just a surprise because I just wasn’t expecting it. The title of the book. You wrote a book. It’s called Living Life Full Throttle. And the part of it that I knew before I started was the adventures. But one of the things that’s definitely a part of this story is the role of your personal faith as it relates to this journey. So you start by talking about how you happen to crash your plane in front of a Catholic church. But I think that if I remember right, your faith, at least then, was not Catholicism.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:39:00]:
No, I’ve never been Catholic. I attended Catholic church when I was in school because my best friend was Catholic, but I was never a Catholic. I raised Protestant.
Amy Stone [00:39:10]:
Okay. So religion can be a hot button topic. And we live in a time where people are very divided and there’s not a lot of conversations about hot button topics. I tend to do things a little bit differently on this platform and bring it out and say, let’s go ahead and put it on the table and make it a part of the conversation because it is a big part of your story. And so I just want to do that. And because it’s not about questioning what it is. So you even talk about. So you, how important is your. Was your faith before you had this experience and did it grow as a. As a direct relation to living through this? I think we have to call it a near death experience.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:39:54]:
Yes, it did. And I think, I think adversity does that. I think, you know, last night I didn’t know if my husband would survive. And in the elevator on the way down the hospital today, I was thanking the Lord that he had survived because I knew where to give the credit because the doctors were surprised that he made it through the night. And so it, it, you know, I was flying solo. Yes. But the Lord was my co pilot. I firmly believe that, that. And I think that, but for. I got a letter from the, from the then governor of Minnesota when I was lying in a hospital bed. And he said, the Lord must not be finished with you yet. And, and I remembered that, and I, I felt a responsibility and later worked with that same governor when he was out of office and I was Commissioner of Corrections. Another governor had appointed me Commissioner of Corrections. And we were able to, to join, to join together and start the first faith based institution in Minnesota corrections. And to this day, it’s still going 20 years later, it’s a national model. And when I was at a prison fellowship luncheon with him, I, I looked over and I said, governor, I know that judges are the legacy most governors like to leave, and I’m sorry that I didn’t give you that opportunity, but maybe this is the plan that the Lord had for us. And he said, indeed, indeed. And I think that’s what comes from following that inner voice. You don’t look to outsiders to say, is this the, is this okay? Is this right? You just do what you feel called to do. And that’s what I’ve tried to do. I’ve responded in ways that other people might have thought made no sense. And the thing that writing this book did is even to me, there were things that, you know, pieces of my life that I knew they all existed, but I didn’t have the box cover to put the pieces all in place. And writing this memoir gave me the opportunity to see how my life unfolded as a result of the accident and my response to it and my life became, I’d have to say, enriched in many ways as a result of that accident. Although, you know, I, I, when I, I did these support groups at the burn center, it was interesting, Amy, because people had all sorts of stories about how their lives had changed from burns. And it sounds strange unless you’ve been there, but to a person, everybody said that they wouldn’t have given up the experience for anything because they feel like they’ve benefited from it. They wouldn’t want to go through it again because it was horrific. It was absolutely, you know, horrific. But they felt like they’d learned something and they were better people because of it. Isn’t that interesting?
Amy Stone [00:42:59]:
Yeah, it is. It definitely is. As I was going to ask you if you thought that some of these changes that you experienced and some of the personal growth that you went through, whether or not you think you could have experienced this is a terrible question. And I know it because it’s a complete hypothetical in, like, a vacuum of nothingness.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:43:15]:
But.
Amy Stone [00:43:16]:
But if you thought you could have experienced them without going through the tragedy of living through the plane crash.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:43:24]:
I think I could have. The question is, would I have?
Amy Stone [00:43:27]:
Yeah, because. And that’s what makes it a terrible question. It’s like imagining something that never happened.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:43:33]:
Well, you know, I. I was trying to prove myself to myself and to other people. And so I looked for opportunities that were, some might call extreme or out of the ordinary. And also I was on a trajectory three years out of law school that I was, you know, destined to go professionally as far as I could. But all these other avenues might not have been as important to me had I not had this experience.
Amy Stone [00:44:04]:
Very interesting. Very interesting. So you do decide to write a book. You don’t write a book book directly after you write the book, decades later. Let’s talk a little bit about making that decision. What made you decide to write the book about. About your life?
Sheryl Ramstad [00:44:19]:
Well, thank you for asking that, because, you know, in many instances, people would see my hands or they. There’d be some casual reference somebody’d make to the crash I was in or. And. And people would ask more questions, and they’d always say, you ought to write a book about your life. And I’d say, you know, I’m too busy living my life to write a book about it. And I was. I was. At that time, I didn’t have the time, the perspective. I was raising my family, I was engaged in activities. But a few years ago, I got to the point where I was looking at stepping out of the professional workplace. And I thought, you know, if not now, when. And I have. I’ve always had the belief that I want no regrets when I go to the grave. And one regret I would have had is what if I had tried to write a book as other people suggested? And I really believe that it’s better to try and fail than never to try at all. And so I thought, I’m going to give it my best. And I had that same thought when I went to law school. I thought, I’m going to give it my best, and if it works out, wonderful. But if it doesn’t, I have no regrets. And that’s why I wrote the book at that point in my life, is because I wanted to see if it was something that I was, A, capable of and B, that would work out so that I could do it and get to this point where it’s published.
Amy Stone [00:45:48]:
And let’s talk about the publishing is this. I was looking at the imprint, which is what we call the publisher, information And I was trying to figure it out. Is this. Did you publish this or did you go through a publishing house? Or how did you. What publishing avenue did you take?
Sheryl Ramstad [00:46:03]:
I went through a publisher in Georgia called Muse Literary. And the way I got connected with Muse is a friend of mine had written a book, and I went out for lunch with her and she said, you know, we talked about writing a book and she was going to a writers conference, as fate would have it, the next week. And she said, you know, if you wanted. I told her of my comment and that it was a time when I was considering it. She said, if you want to go to this conference, I can get you comped in. I have a room we can. You can stay in. And all you have to do is get your airline ticket to New Orleans. Well, I thought, you know, again, it would be an interesting way to explore this further and see how realistic it was. So we went to New Orleans and that’s where I met the publisher who wasn’t the person who was giving the workshop, but was there as somebody that had worked with the. The publish, the person giving the. The workshop. And that also bolstered my confidence when I saw these other people who were writing that if they can write, I can write about my story. And. And that publisher really encouraged me. She said, you know, we don’t have a memoir. And she said, your story is really worth our publishing. And so she.
Amy Stone [00:47:21]:
It has a lot of very dramatic, dramatic things in it, for sure. When you talk about, like pitching a book concept to somebody because they say eight out adults have dreams of writing a book, but most people do not have the hook of, let me tell you about surviving a plane crash and going on to do. I mean, you have a resume that is full of accolades when you were working. I’m going to go back to the topic of choosing to do something that could be seen as slightly controversial. When you were putting together this memoir and you are going to publish and you’re going to put it out, religion and faith and the role of religion can turn people in different ways, ways. Did you think about not putting that in in the story or dialing back? Because I did notice that it’s a big part of the story. It’s not actually featured in the marketing, that it’s a faith journey.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:48:16]:
Yes, I did give it a great deal of thought, and it was not in initially. And as I worked with an editor who I had met in New Orleans and who worked with me, she was out of Chicago, and we met once a month, month via Zoom and I pages. And then she’d give me feedback and it would come out in our conversations. And she said, cheryl, this is such an important and big part of you. And I said, but I’m not. Not wanting it to be just for people of faith. I want it to be something that will help all people. Burn survivors, adventure seekers, you know, I want it to be broader, have broader appeal.
Amy Stone [00:48:54]:
Okay.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:48:54]:
I think we can do it in a way. I think you can do it in a way that will allow both. Be respectful of other people who may not share your beliefs, but also share who you are. Be true to yourself in that book.
Amy Stone [00:49:10]:
That. That is the. You just answered the question that was noodling around in my mind because when you read like. It was noodling around in my mind because it is very evident that it’s a big part of your personal journey. And then I was trying to just sort of feel you out and figure out whether or not it was an underlying purpose of the book. But that answers that, and I appreciate you having the courtesy to let me push you on that because it’s not a thing that people talk about in forums like this as much as we probably should. And I hope it did not make you uncomfortable.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:49:39]:
Not at all. I think it’s a very appropriate question and I’m really glad you asked it and I’m glad that you gave me an opportunity to address it.
Amy Stone [00:49:49]:
Yeah, that’s. I mean, I think I’m very. I just. There was something that came up and I thought I would ask because I was really curious and that’s the benefit of me getting to ask the questions. Okay, so in a minute, we’re going to do the final questions, but I want to make sure that we take a second and tell everybody that’s listening. The title of the book is Living Life Full Throttle by Sheryl Ramstad. And it’s available on Amazon. And is it anywhere else? Is there another place that people should go to look for it and find it and find you?
Sheryl Ramstad [00:50:18]:
It’s on. It’s in Barnes and Noble.
Amy Stone [00:50:21]:
Okay.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:50:22]:
Okay. In all three versions. And it’s also on Goodreads.
Amy Stone [00:50:26]:
Oh, very nice. How long did it take, Start to finish, between the day you woke up and said, fine, I’ll write a memoir. And when you held your copy in your. In your hands.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:50:37]:
Two years.
Amy Stone [00:50:38]:
Two years. That. That’s. That’s pretty fast. That’s pretty fast. Not surprising for someone as driven as you, but it takes it. It’s crazy how in this fast paced world, it still takes years to bring a book. Book into existence. All right, are you ready for the final three questions? Sheryl?
Sheryl Ramstad [00:50:53]:
I’m ready.
Amy Stone [00:50:54]:
All right, let’s do it. If you had to pick one meal as your very favorite dinner for all time, like if I was inviting you over for your birthday and I said I want to make you your favorite meal, what would you ask for?
Sheryl Ramstad [00:51:06]:
Salmon.
Amy Stone [00:51:08]:
What? How? Roasted, Steamed, poached, which. How do you like it?
Sheryl Ramstad [00:51:12]:
Roasted words with and well done. I like well done salmon. I love vegetables with it. Just very fresh vegetables. Not a lot of sauce. Not hollandaise or anything like that on it. For dessert, I’d like just something simple. Fruit, Just fruit.
Amy Stone [00:51:33]:
All right. Roasted salmon. I think that cooked. So I mean, obviously sushi salmon comes with sushi, so that’s raw. But I had somebody in a restaurant ask me when I ordered salmon. They’re like, how do you want it cooked? And I was like, no, no, no. Cooked my salmon. Cooked all the way through place. So I don’t know if that’s my own ignorance with salmon, but other things I will order medium rare. But salmon, I’m like, no, no, I think we cook the salmon all the way through. That’s my, that’s my. That’s how I like it. All right, so share with us.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:52:00]:
It’s kind of slimy, isn’t it?
Amy Stone [00:52:02]:
That is my take on that. That’s just an opinion. I’m not the, I’m not the salmon preparing efficient. But that is how I, that’s how I go through life. So. All right, you are an author and we’re talking about a book, but do you read or listen to audiobooks these days? And if so, do you want to share with us a recent book that you have enjoyed?
Sheryl Ramstad [00:52:22]:
Yes, in fact, I’m going to be recording my audio book and just, I just retained somebody to help me with that. So it’ll be out in a few months. I love Doris Kearns Goodwin’s book about her, her last days with her husband and writing about his time with John F. Kennedy as his speechwriter.
Amy Stone [00:52:51]:
Okay.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:52:51]:
And her time with LBJ as his right arm. And I thought it was really a well done book. And in fact, it was so well done that I’m traveling to see her speak and give it live. So in a just a couple weeks. So I really have great deal of respect for her. And it’s, the book is called the Unfinished Story. And basically he, her husband had all these boxes from his years with jfk and they were trying to go through them, but he had cancer and he died prematurely before they finished it. And so that’s the unfinished story went into the box and, and, and had to put some of the pieces together that he wasn’t there to help her with.
Amy Stone [00:53:37]:
I hadn’t heard of that. That sounds really interesting.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:53:40]:
It is, it is. She’s an excellent writer and it’s a fascinating story and you learn a lot of history and that’s a part of.
Amy Stone [00:53:46]:
History that’s sort of shrouded forever in uncertainty. And you know, everybody’s curious. Everybody’s curious. So I think that’s, that’s a wonderful recommendation. Thank you. All right. When you take vacations these days, do you prefer to travel far away to exotic locations or do you like to stay closer to home?
Sheryl Ramstad [00:54:03]:
Home. My favorite vacations are with my grandchildren and children and I give, I, I just come back from a trip to Myrtle beach with my six year, six year old granddaughter, my daughter and my son in law. And in the month before I took my 11 year old granddaughter who had just graduated from 5th grade. I told her she could go wherever she wanted and I take her and her mother and we had a wonderful trip and I love to do that for my family when I go for myself. I love to go where there’s other people that I know and I love the Chautauqua Institute. Have you, are you familiar with the Chautauqua Institution?
Amy Stone [00:54:53]:
I don’t think so.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:54:54]:
If not, it’s a fascinating place. It’s been in existence 151 years and I in fact did a book signing there just about a month ago. It’s well known in New York. It’s, you fly into Buffalo and then it’s about two hour drive from there and it’s, that’s where Doris Kearns Goodwin is coming to speak along with Morgan Freeman’s going to be there.
Amy Stone [00:55:16]:
Wow.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:55:17]:
And next year Ken Burns is. They have nine, oh my goodness. They have nine sessions, nine weeks during the summer. Each week has a different topic and they bring together the most fascinating, knowledgeable people. And the people who attend are also interesting. And then they have entertainment they had.
Amy Stone [00:55:42]:
Very varied. Like one is Myrtle beach, land of lazy rivers in the hotel and the other is the Chautauqua Institute with Morgan Freeman who I would like to narrate my life.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:55:54]:
Yeah, he’s going to do a narration there. But they had Diana Crawl. They have somebody every night in the amphitheater. They had four symphony concerts the week we were there, one with a world famous violinist. It’s just a, a very exciting, exhilarating, stimulating place. And so I’m going back for my third week this summer shortly, and it’s just my happy place.
Amy Stone [00:56:20]:
That’s amazing. I’m so glad I asked. That’s a delightful answer. That’s it. Sheryl Ramsad, thank you so much for being an amazing guest today on the show. Show.
Sheryl Ramstad [00:56:27]:
It was my pleasure and such a pleasure to meet you, Amy.