How To Create A Midlife Reclamation, Embracing Change And Reclaiming Passion

Ann Alexander Seder [00:00:00]:
Right. Because it could be Smythe.

Amy Stone [00:00:04]:
Ann. Alexander Seder. Welcome to the art of imperfect adulting.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:00:09]:
Thank you very much. Amy Stone. I’m so glad to be here.

Amy Stone [00:00:12]:
Me too. Are you ready for a fun chat?

Ann Alexander Seder [00:00:15]:
I am so ready for a fun chat. I’ve got my water. I’ve got another thermos of water. I’m ready to go.

Amy Stone [00:00:22]:
I love it. I love it. So this is our first conversation together. We’ve never met. I’m excited to get to know you. We’re gonna talk about a lot of today, but as a starting point, I’d love it if you could please share with the audience and me what part of the world you call home today. And as much or as little about your family and home life as you want.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:00:44]:
Okay. I am an American, as you all may guess from my accent, but I live in Munich, Germany, and I have lived in Europe longer than I ever lived in the States. I came here when I was about 21, something like that, to finish up my drama school. And then I did the typical backpacking around Europe, and then I would always go back home. And home for me back then was Chicago, and then I would come back to Europe, and then I go home and I come back and on one of my trips in Europe, I got set up on a blind date with this hot German guy that my girlfriend had told me about two years previously and described him as my future husband. And back then, she’s like, you’ve got to write him a letter. You’ve got to include a picture of yourself, and you have to send it. We’re talking a long time ago. And so I was like, what do I look like, a Russian mail away bride? That’s not happening. And so I went to go visit her, and then she and her husband finally finagled this meeting between the two of us. And I have to say, I knew within five minutes that she was right. And we have been together for almost 30 years. It’ll be. We’ve been together for 29 years now. So there you go.

Amy Stone [00:02:01]:
Amazing. Amazing.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:02:03]:
We have a son.

Amy Stone [00:02:04]:
You have one child. Okay, so one child.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:02:06]:
We have one son. He’s. Yeah, he’s 27. We have a beautiful border collie. Her name is Zoe. We have a furry daughter. And that’s it.

Amy Stone [00:02:14]:
Nothing, nothing against mail order brides. I actually have a relative who is a serial marrier. And one of those was an actual. He responded to an ad and found somebody that he made that he married. And they. They are, as far as I know, still married. So Like, I am open to all. I know, I know.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:02:33]:
Do you know, though? I mean, it’s a whole nother conversation. But marriage is a choice.

Amy Stone [00:02:39]:
It is.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:02:39]:
Right. And staying in a marriage is a choice. And so nobody’s perfect.

Amy Stone [00:02:45]:
Yeah.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:02:46]:
But if you can respect that person and you like them and they don’t repulse you, it’s probably a good basis for a relationship. A long term relationship. Right?

Amy Stone [00:02:58]:
100%. I mean, it was a very. It was a very eventful. It was a very eventful series of conversations when this person in my family was going through this. So I’m not going to say that it’s not a good conversation starter, but I do think it’s hilarious to bring up. All right, so anyway, we got way off track, which is a sign that I will have to work hard to keep us on task. And you get two people who talk a lot. That is what happens. Okay, so from the information you sent me before we had this conversation, I believe that maybe your first career was as an actor. And I’ve got even more questions about this now that you shared that you live in Munich. So do you want to tell us about that? And I’ll give you, like, a prompt, which is I’m always curious about what inspires people, young people, like, young you, little you, to go into a career as a performing artist.

Anne Alexander-Sieder [00:03:48]:
Mm. Well, you know, I think my first experience with being an actor was at summer camp. I mean, it’s like most often a kid’s first experience is at school, summer camp, one of those. And we were doing Oliver Twist, and we were all just kind of like, corralled through the different auditions and the singing, the dancing, the text, you know, all those different things. Right. And I mean, I was just like, okay, I’m supposed to go here now. Okay. You know, I just kind of did everything everybody else was doing. And then I ended up getting the one and only really female part in it. The. Well, of course the orphans were mix, you know, boys and girls. But everything else, all the. All the main characters are all male, and there’s only Nancy, who’s the female. And that’s what I ended up getting cast at. But even then, I didn’t get it. I didn’t. It didn’t mean anything to me. I wasn’t like, I wasn’t gunning for it, so I didn’t. But it was when we were performing it. And I can still see this. I’m standing on stage, I’m singing. As long as he needs me. I have no idea what Those words mean I’m 10. But I’m. I’m looking out at the audience. I can, the lights are super bright, I can see everybody in silhouette. And all of a sudden I had like this, this moment like I. What I imagine it must feel like because I’ve never done it, but that moment when you jump out of an airplane before you start to plummet, that sort of floating sensation, okay. And I felt like we were all together like the audience, I had them and there was something in my little 10 year old skinny body that was super powerful and moving about that. And it was like that hit of. Honestly, I compare it to a drug, like that hit of a drug, adrenaline, whatever it is that you’re just like. And you’re always kind of chasing that feeling of connection. There’s nothing like that feeling of connection to be connected to so many people at one time. And I came home and I still. Acting wasn’t on my radar as a career. My dad was a Harvard graduate, my mom was an entrepreneur. I mean, it was just like not part of the vocabulary. And but you know, I started organizing all the neighborhood kids, you know, food, glorious food, you know, we’re all doing all this stuff, right? And I would always participate in things, but it, it sort of fell away and it stayed in the back of my mind as like a. Oh, wouldn’t that be nice? But not serious. And I became really, I’ve always been interested in how people think, in how people express themselves. And those two things really came together for me when I took a blow off course in seventh grade, which was American Sign Language. Okay, thinking easy A. And I, I fell in love with it. And it was like, they’re just so expressive, you know, deaf people, because they don’t express themselves through words, they express themselves through their, their bodies, literally, and through watching other people expressing themselves through their bodies. And I just, I just fell in love with that. And I’ve always, as I say, been interested in how people think, how people take, as they say here in Germany, you know. And so for a long time I thought I wanted to be a psychiatrist for deaf children. Very specific.

Amy Stone [00:07:41]:
That is very specific. No one would come back to you and say, you need to pick a narrow niche. You would be very specific, very vertical.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:07:50]:
Yeah. And so I had a lot of problems with my dad growing up. I was a rebellious teenager, a wild child. And I think when I was around 17, I’m like applying to colleges and I probably said, hey dad, I need money to apply for colleges. And he was like, oh, I’m not paying for that. And then I was like, oh, but we’re still talking, like, it was the 80s, so it wasn’t like the end of the world. Right. So I’m thinking it’s not great, but it wasn’t also the end of the world. And I was like, well, okay, as long as you have no expectations that I’m to become a lawyer or a psychiatrist, then I’m just going to do my thing. And then that’s. I was becoming very close with my grandma at that time. She lived in Chicago. I grew up in Detroit. And my grandma, I didn’t know, but she had been under contract to one of the big studios in Hollywood years and years ago, like in the 1930s or whatever it was. And I never knew that about her, that it had been a dream of hers. And so when we started to. She always knew that I was into it. And when I had decided, I don’t know if I even told her that my dad isn’t going to pay for university, but she was like, well, come to Chicago. Detroit’s a dead end, you know. Right.

Amy Stone [00:09:11]:
Well, in the 80s, that was definitely a transitional city. Detroit is awesome now. I don’t know when the last time you were there. Detroit is amazing at the moment.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:09:18]:
Yeah, it’s really coming. Coming out. I mean, I. There’s. I’ve always thought, you know, that’s a whole nother conversation. Detroit was always trying to have its renaissance, literally from the time I can remember. You know, I was born and raised in Detroit. In Detroit. Like, I lived in Lafayette Park, Palmer Park, Indian Village, you know, Huntington Woods, Bloomfield Hills. Went to school in Grosse Pointe Shores. Like, I was all over Detroit.

Amy Stone [00:09:47]:
The only one of those. I have a kid living in Ann Arbor, so I fly in and out of Detroit. And when you tell people you’re going to Detroit, the legacy of the 80s and that, like, lives on. People who have not been there are like, oh, my God, it’s, you know, a nightmare. So I was blown away to spend time in the city and just. I mean, I just really, really impressed.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:10:12]:
Were you in the city or were you asking?

Amy Stone [00:10:15]:
Well, she’s in Ann Arbor, so definitely in the suburbs. But I ran. You know, when you have a kid who’s living well, I don’t know if you’re in Germany, so maybe it’s slightly different. I like, plan activities to go and be there and visit. And so I just ran the Detroit Half Marathon and spent a weekend in there. And I also, like, you know, went to the Motown Museum? I think so. And some other things like that. But. So I, like, I’ve the. Yeah. So I think that I don’t have a memory of it at all or any experience of it from before. I just saw it now like, the 2000s. But the architecture is unlike anything I’ve ever seen.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:10:54]:
Amazing. Detroit was the richest city in the entire country.

Amy Stone [00:10:58]:
I mean, it is mind blowing. Mind blowing. And it’s just. There’s a lot of coolness. And I am drawn to melting pot communities where there’s a lot of diversity. And oh, my gosh, Detroit has that in spades. Like, there’s so much. So much. Yeah.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:11:17]:
When I. When people ask where I grew up, like, the place that I.

Amy Stone [00:11:21]:
What’s that tangent like? Off to the tangent.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:11:24]:
Well, we’re gonna go off on another tiny one. But when I. I grew up in Lafayette park, and Lafayette park, well, that was like my formative years, the first 10 years of my life, more or less. And Lafayette Park, I always describe it as Sesame street in steel and glass.

Amy Stone [00:11:40]:
Okay.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:11:41]:
Because it was all designed by Mies van der Rohe. I don’t know if you’re filming.

Amy Stone [00:11:45]:
I don’t know that name, but I take your word for it.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:11:47]:
He’s the grandfather of the modern skyscraper.

Amy Stone [00:11:50]:
Okay.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:11:50]:
All steel and glass. Right.

Amy Stone [00:11:52]:
But that’s like the Renaissance Center Hotel, which is one of the ones downtown. Might also be then from his. Because that’s all steel and glass. It’s not, but it’s okay. It’s different.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:12:00]:
Yeah. But he definitely inspired that.

Amy Stone [00:12:03]:
Okay. Right.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:12:04]:
His stuff was much boxier and.

Amy Stone [00:12:06]:
Oh, because that’s very round.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:12:07]:
50S and 60s.

Amy Stone [00:12:08]:
Yes. Okay.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:12:09]:
Yeah, yeah. Definite tangent there.

Amy Stone [00:12:12]:
Sorry.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:12:13]:
So then I went to. Then I went to Chicago and I started going to acting school. And I mean, one thing kind of led to another. The school I was at, which is no longer. But it used to bring in coach, coaches, teachers, instructors, whatever you want to call them, from rada, which is the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art, and from London. And so it was always kind of like this dream of mine. Like, when I. When I finish here, then I want to go study there for a semester.

Amy Stone [00:12:47]:
All right.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:12:48]:
And a lot of us did that. Who from that school went and finished up in London. And then, you know, I was there and I was young and I want, you know, wanted to see the world. And so I started. I planned it, right? So I bought a Eurail ticket, I backpacked around Europe and with a girlfriend of mine who had also been in acting school, and we did that for like, three months. And that was kind of that. And, yeah. And then I came back to Chicago, started doing a lot of theater, mostly theater. And then I would go back. Like, then I was in Rome. I lived in Rome for a few years. Then I went back to Chicago, and then I was doing more, like, commercial and starting to audition for film and stuff. But I was making enough money. I had landed a McDonald’s commercial, and I was also in an equity theater show. So I was making enough money to have my health insurance paid through SAG and not to have to work another side job. So I was like, check, check. I was, you know, you don’t need a whole lot of money when you’re young.

Amy Stone [00:14:00]:
I know. It’s the most amazing thing. I think back to how cheap my life was, and I’m just like, oh, totally. So nice.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:14:06]:
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I probably was not making any great shakes, but it was enough to pay my rent, and it was enough to, like, I didn’t have to do anything else. And I was, like, doing, you know, thinking I was doing really well and also thinking, like, okay, it’s very clear how my future is going to pan out now. I mean, this is clear. And one time on a visit to a girlfriend of mine who had married a German, and I was. I thought I was still in love with this guy who I’d been with in Rome. So. And I couldn’t get over him. So I was like, okay, I’m going to go visit my girlfriend in Germany, and then I’m going to go see him and see if it’s all in my head or if I really do love him. Either way, you know, if it’s the latter, I need to figure this out. And if it’s the first, then, you know, I’m free. And on my way down to Rome, I met my husband on this blind date. And I really liked him, but I insisted, like, he’s like, stay, stay. And I was, nope, I am going to Rome. Because I needed to know if I still love this other guy.

Amy Stone [00:15:18]:
Sure.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:15:19]:
And so I walked into. We had a lunch date for the next day. I walked into the restaurant. I, like, I can still see him sitting there. He’s there, and he’s, you know, as cute as he ever was. But I opened the door. Nothing. Like, nothing. It’s like, yes, I’m free. Okay, Matthias.

Amy Stone [00:15:37]:
And that’s the German, because that could also be a Spanish name. Sure. All right, so then this leads right into the next series of questions that I had. So you mentioned that you had a very clear vision for what you thought your life was gonna look like. Was that vision professional acting forever, or was it husband, family, kids?

Ann Alexander Seder [00:16:01]:
It was both.

Amy Stone [00:16:02]:
Okay. Both.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:16:03]:
Yeah. I always wanted to be a mom. Always. I’m the oldest of four sisters. Yeah, I always wanted to be a mother.

Amy Stone [00:16:13]:
Okay. Did you think that that would involve taking a pause from performing?

Ann Alexander Seder [00:16:20]:
No.

Amy Stone [00:16:21]:
All right, so that’s. Yeah, that’s. It is both. I will. I’m not a performer. I have a totally different thing. But that also completely caught me by surprise. When I made the decision to have a family. I was like, oh, all of a sudden I understand why people are doing that. Like, before, I would look at people and say to myself in my head, like, I don’t know why they don’t just come back to work, like, hire, you know, do the thing.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:16:44]:
What’s the matter with you?

Amy Stone [00:16:45]:
Yeah, right, exactly. And then you go through the very painful discovery that there is not actually a job that is going to pay you a full time. So I can’t imagine what it’s like when you’re in a performer. Totally different schedule. There’s not a company that’s going to hire me to work from 10:15 to 11:30 and have time off for every single ear infection.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:17:05]:
Actually, I did find a pretty good workaround, so I started doing a ton of voiceover. So let me back up a little bit.

Amy Stone [00:17:12]:
Yeah, back up. Tell me about.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:17:14]:
So moved to Germany, didn’t speak German.

Amy Stone [00:17:16]:
Oh, yeah, right. We didn’t even touch on that. Like, how do you kind of performing work? Do you do in a country where they. Everybody speaks German.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:17:22]:
Exactly. And I mean, I’m just going to get real with you here. I got knocked up.

Amy Stone [00:17:28]:
Okay.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:17:29]:
And we’d only known each other for three months, and so I had decided. I am. I’m 29. I think it was 20. 28 or 29 at that point. 29 it must have been.

Amy Stone [00:17:42]:
The timing is right.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:17:44]:
I’m like, you know what? I’m old enough. I’m taking responsibility. This is not the baby’s problem or fault or whatever.

Amy Stone [00:17:52]:
Yeah.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:17:52]:
And. And I laid it out to him. I said, you have four choices, two of which were totally bogus. But I wanted to see his reaction.

Amy Stone [00:18:04]:
Okay.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:18:05]:
I was like, look, I’m not having an abortion, but I don’t want you to feel like you don’t have a say in the matter, because you do. He didn’t, but you do. And so here are the four choices.

Amy Stone [00:18:17]:
You don’t, but I’ll give it to you.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:18:18]:
Anyway, I’ll pretend we do.

Amy Stone [00:18:20]:
I’ll involve you in this conversation with the right to ignore what you say.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:18:24]:
You’re right. Exactly. And I said, I. We can give the baby up for adoption. Never would have happened, but I wanted to see what his reaction was. And he’s like, you know, I can see him, like, physically repelling to this. And I’m like, good, check, you know, on my little mental notepad. Right. Then the second thing was I said, well, we can. You could be the primary caregiver and I will be the secondary caregiver and support you as much as I can financially and whatever. Right. All of that also not going to happen. I would never have given away the baby. And. But then he’s like, kind of like rocking back, you know, like doing that thing, like, yeah, not ideal, but not impossible.

Amy Stone [00:19:10]:
Right.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:19:11]:
Like, you could see it going through his head. And then I said, I can be the primary caregiver and you can support us and be the secondary caregiver. And then he’s like, kind of nodding more. It’s becoming less of, like, I don’t know, to maybe. Yeah, that sounds more like it. And I said, or we can try living together for six months, and if that doesn’t work, then we go back to plan B or plan C, which would have been plan B, of course, Me being the primary caregiver.

Amy Stone [00:19:42]:
Sure.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:19:42]:
And that was the first night I’d come to visit him in Munich, and that was the first night. And then we didn’t talk about it for a week, and it was killing me, but I did not bring it up again. I thought, well, you know, no answer is an answer, too. I am just going to enjoy the moment and then I’m going to worry about it when I get home.

Amy Stone [00:20:05]:
Okay.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:20:05]:
And I also have an amazing family, so I knew I had support there and that I was old enough to figure it out. I wasn’t worried about that.

Amy Stone [00:20:16]:
Yeah.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:20:17]:
And so on the very last day, he’s like, well, I think we should try living together. And then, you know, about a month later, I think, or maybe two months later, I was moving to Munich. So getting pregnant is really what, kind of like, if that hadn’t happened, our hands wouldn’t have been forced. We probably wouldn’t have worked out, to be very honest, where I love him. He’s an amazing man. I totally lucked out. But we’re so different, and we’re also both very strong. So it would have been easy to just go, no. You know, this is. You’re in Chicago, you’re in Munich. This is just too much work. But when you make the decision that there’s something more important, which. And we both had that our child was the most important thing and we. I did love him. But when your hand is kind of forced with that, like, do you love him? Do you really love him? Or do you just think you do? Because you’re right. And so there was a lot of that as well. But Anyway, that was 29 years ago. We’re still together. Our son has been out of the house for five years. So.

Amy Stone [00:21:31]:
Oh, my God, I’m so jealous. I’m very close to being an empty nester, but not quite there yet. All right, so in the bio you sent me, I think you phrased it that you took a break, but it sounds like it was only sort of a break. You were doing some things, voiceover work maybe, but you step back from, I guess, sort of really active stage performing type things. How long was the break?

Ann Alexander Seder [00:21:55]:
So within the first two years, I was already getting antsy. I was like, what can I do to. So I had seen a poster somewhere for the American Drama group in Munich. And so I went and made an appointment and auditioned. And the guy was like, fantastic, welcome to the company, blah, blah, blah. He starts pulling out his calendar to show me the touring schedule. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Tour? No, I have a two year old. There’s no way that I can do that. I was mortified. And I was. Because I hadn’t, you know, even checked into this. And I, I apologize. I get up to leave. And on a whim, as I’m closing the door behind me, I lean back in and I said, hey, you don’t happen to have any names for me here in Munich, do you? And he thought about it for a second. He gave me two names. And those names became pivotal in launching my voiceover career.

Amy Stone [00:22:50]:
Okay.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:22:52]:
And here in Germany, in America as well, to a certain extent. But really here in Germany, they really shoebox you. So I was considered a speaker, but not an actor. And whenever people would be like, wow, you, you do that so well, I was like, yeah, I’m an actor, you know, thanks.

Amy Stone [00:23:14]:
This is what I know.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:23:17]:
I don’t know why you’re so surprised. You know, it’s kind of.

Amy Stone [00:23:19]:
I knew, right?

Ann Alexander Seder [00:23:21]:
Yeah. And then that led to me being a presenter, which is like doing the intros and outros and commercial work and stuff like that. So I was always doing acting adjacent, which was great. It was lucrative. It was very flexible. I was known for bringing My son and my dog to the studios with me. I was. We had a very traditional relationship, my husband and I. So I was still the one in charge of our son. I was always making dinner. I was in charge of the house. But, like, a really long. A major day for me would be six hours.

Amy Stone [00:23:55]:
That’s amazing. That’s really good.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:23:58]:
Yeah, it was good, but it wasn’t. It wasn’t what I signed up for. It wasn’t what I became an actor for, and it wasn’t fulfilling in. It wasn’t fulfilling creatively.

Amy Stone [00:24:11]:
So then. Is there a time when you tried to go back to more traditional acting?

Ann Alexander Seder [00:24:20]:
Yes.

Amy Stone [00:24:20]:
Okay.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:24:21]:
So this happened when my son was about 16 years old. We had a standing movie date on Friday nights, and he came to me on Thursday, and he’s like, mom, I don’t want to hang out with you on Friday. Tomorrow. Not only do I not want to.

Amy Stone [00:24:37]:
Hang out with you tomorrow, see ya.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:24:39]:
I don’t ever want to do this again.

Amy Stone [00:24:41]:
Right, Exactly. Exactly. You’ve done a good job. I’m leaving.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:24:47]:
Exactly. And it was the first time, kind of back to what we started talking about, right? It was the first time in 16 years that I had really thought about, like, really, what. What do I want? And I think my husband was away on a golf trip or something. So I had the weekend to myself. And it was. The answer was, well, I want to do an acting workshop. So I sat down, I Googled it. Acting workshop, Munich, English. And one popped up. And it was. There was one spot open, starting the next day with a coach out of la. And I went and I did it. And it was everything I had hoped it would be. Makes me almost a little bit emotional because there are some pretty crappy acting workshops as well. And it could have been something like that. And I think my life would have taken a completely different trajectory had that happened. But the course was. It was an amazing workshop and brought up all of the feelings and the connection and the reasons that I became an actor.

Amy Stone [00:25:59]:
So I’m going to click on that. Like, I’m going to push on that just a teeny tiny bit, because I think, because it’s past, and for you, it’s all the way in the past sense. But there’s a lot of things that actually happened there. Like, so you had an opportunity to connect with yourself because everybody was gone. Your son was gone, your husband was gone. And that gave you the space to sort of clear your head. And then you. You were able to connect with this feeling, but you made a choice to do the research. Right. It’s like the decision we make before the thing that gets the credit. It’s like, oh, well, let me see what’s out there. Is there a workshop? And then the next one, I mean, it’s a. It’s two separate things. Like, oh, gosh, there’s a restaurant down this street that serves a food I like. Going to the restaurant is a whole different sequence of actions. It’s a big step to actually sign up, and then a little bit of luck and kismet that you give credit to whatever. It turned out to be something that was killer, that, you know, impacted the trajectory. But I just. As somebody listening to the story, it’s like, we always give the credit to the other thing. It was a good workshop, so that’s what worked. Whereas sitting on your couch in your living room and being like, yeah, I’ll do this, I think that’s a choice that makes a difference.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:27:09]:
Totally. Taking that first step is always the thing that makes the difference. Because, you know, you never know where the second step leads to.

Amy Stone [00:27:18]:
A hundred percent. We have thousands, we all know, hundreds of people who are like, I really want to do this. And then they never do. Right?

Ann Alexander Seder [00:27:23]:
Yeah.

Amy Stone [00:27:23]:
They talk about it, you know, never do. And there’s no judgment. Right. Like, I have a long list of things I’ve never done. But when you do make the decision, you’re like, yeah, I’m going to jump out of the airplane.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:27:33]:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I honestly believe that your passion, your curiosity. When you have a burning passion, a burning curiosity, that is your key to your purpose.

Amy Stone [00:27:45]:
Yeah, no, absolutely. I think. Yeah. And I think that there’s. There’s, like, all kinds of, like, you know, cliches that. That speak to that, you know, but, like, a hard work looks like. I mean, opportunity looks like hard work, you know, like the person. Yeah. That kind of thing. It doesn’t. The decision to, like, look up a workshop may not have felt like a significant thing. It may have felt like, what am I going to eat for dinner? You know?

Ann Alexander Seder [00:28:12]:
Or it felt like a whim. It’s like, oh, I think I’d like to do this.

Amy Stone [00:28:16]:
And.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:28:17]:
And then it was there. I mean, you have to understand, too.

Amy Stone [00:28:20]:
I’m in, like, things, like, lined up.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:28:22]:
Totally.

Amy Stone [00:28:23]:
Which we call it synchronicity or whatever. Like. Yeah, I mean, it’s great. It’s such a fun feeling when that happens in big and small things. You know, you look up that you want to go see a movie, and you look up and it fits in your day. That’s a great feeling. You pull into the parking lot and it’s like, ah, there’s a spot where I want to be, you know? But then, you know, hey, let me see if I take a workshop. And it works. That’s like. That’s a really, really fun synchronicity. So I love this part of the story because there is. Hugh and I might be in slightly similar age demographics. There is this whole sense of, like, reclamation for midlife situations, like reclaiming the things. And there are times where that doesn’t vibe for me because we can’t actually roll the clock back. Right. Like, I can’t actually go back and be 25, but 25 was great. It was a lot of fun, but I can’t actually do it again. Did you. At this point, was there even a flash, even for a second? And there may not have been of. Maybe I’ll just do something else. I’ll become a Pilates instructor. Instead of looking at the thing I used to do, I just made that thing up about Pilates. I don’t have any. You know.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:29:31]:
Yeah. So it wasn’t it in the moment that I said, I’m going to Google this, see if a workshop is available.

Amy Stone [00:29:40]:
Right.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:29:40]:
I hadn’t yet made the decision to relaunch my acting career.

Amy Stone [00:29:43]:
Oh, okay.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:29:44]:
I just. I just wanted to have some fun. Yeah. I just wanted to have some fun.

Amy Stone [00:29:49]:
Yeah.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:29:49]:
And what ended up happening was I left that workshop three days later understanding that I had been trying to breathe underwater for 16 years.

Amy Stone [00:30:00]:
Yeah.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:30:00]:
Like, this is my element. This is what I. I am supposed to be doing. And I came home, I told my husband, I. I don’t know what this looks like. I’m 40. I was 47 at the time. I’m still an American living in Germany. Right. I have no idea what this looks like, but I need to give it another shot. And, you know, he was like, sure, he’s very supportive. Right. So he. I don’t. But I also think he didn’t get it.

Amy Stone [00:30:33]:
Right.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:30:33]:
How would he have known?

Amy Stone [00:30:34]:
How would he have known what it meant? Right. Yeah.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:30:37]:
And so I had a couple of choices at that point. I. I had decided at this point, oh, yeah, I need to relaunch my acting career. And my choice. I knew I was rusty. You know, acting is a skill. It’s a craft. Like a musician, like an athlete, like a dancer. So if you. If you don’t do it. And I. Even though I had been working, acting adjacent, I hadn’t been doing, like, there. There’s a Lot more that goes into it than people realize, I think. So I was very. Feeling very rusty and. Which was making me lack confidence in my skills.

Amy Stone [00:31:15]:
Confidence comes from competence. Yeah, exactly.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:31:18]:
And so I knew I needed training, and so I had a choice. I could, you know, fly to London, fly to New York, fly to LA and get the training I needed, but that would have been super expensive. It also would have been very time consuming, and I was still a mom, getting my kid up for school and making dinner and my husband and, you know, all of that. And so that really would have limited me to one or two times a year, and that would take a long time. Right.

Amy Stone [00:31:51]:
Yeah.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:31:52]:
And. Or I could bring the experts to meet.

Amy Stone [00:31:56]:
Oh, I want to hear this. Okay. How did you do that?

Ann Alexander Seder [00:32:00]:
Well, yeah, this is actually what has sparked this whole new phase of my coaching career as well, so.

Amy Stone [00:32:06]:
Good, because that was. That was. It was good. That was. You see, you’re going right along the same path because that was the next thing, like, bring us to the present. Okay, let’s. Here we go. Here we go.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:32:15]:
So that’s what I did. My original intent was just to get the training that I could get in Munich for that price. So if I was paying €500 a workshop in Munich, I didn’t want to have to pay more than that by bringing the coaches in. So I knew that if. If I could find the coaches, good coaches, that I needed to find a handful of people to make this a viable thing for me. And that’s what I did. And what very quickly became evident was I was getting free training. I was building a community, and I was making, like, between, you know, anywhere between 1,000 and 3,000 per workshop, depending. And I was also building authority, which at the time I thought was a negative because. And I’ll tell you why. Because it sounds weird, right? Because it does. Yeah. I was not looking to have people look to me as a coach or as a facility. You know, I. All. I was there to learn, just like they were. And when people feel like you are above them, then they are afraid to give you feedback.

Amy Stone [00:33:25]:
Right. That’s true. That’s. That’s. Or that’s my experience, I should say. That’s also my experience.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:33:30]:
Yeah. And so I really kind of had to fight, like, you know, no, guys, I’m. I’m. Give me feedback. Tell me I suck. Tell me why I suck, whatever it is. Right. Because I want to get better. That’s why I’m doing this. And so I did that for about a year and a half, and it had served its purpose. And then I relaunched my acting career. I was very kind of methodical about it. And then I went and got an agent and I started getting on the casting director’s radars and I started auditioning and doing all the things that I knew how to do that all actors kind of know how to do when you get out of acting school. Which are not enough.

Amy Stone [00:34:08]:
Right. One of the things you mentioned in what you submitted is that during the pause, during the parent pause, that’s what I call that for myself, the parent pause, where that.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:34:17]:
Yeah.

Amy Stone [00:34:17]:
If you prioritize your kids, if you have that luxury to be able to do that, then it often impacts like a pause in other parts of your life. So is that the industry changed?

Ann Alexander Seder [00:34:30]:
Oh, totally.

Amy Stone [00:34:31]:
I had changed, you had changed, and the industry had changed.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:34:33]:
I left when I was 29, 28, and I was coming back as a middle aged woman. I was 40s. Well, at this point, I’m almost 50. I’m 49. At this point.

Amy Stone [00:34:43]:
You’re supposed to be invisible then. Did you miss the memo? You’re supposed to be.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:34:47]:
I guess I missed.

Amy Stone [00:34:48]:
And wearing khaki pants and munching.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:34:51]:
Cut your hair short. Yeah, exactly. Wear big chunky jewelry. Yeah. So for me, like when you go to acting school, I mean, there’s a whole lot we could unpack with that. Because there is. Right. The whole middle aged. I even hate that term. But what’s wrong with it, really?

Amy Stone [00:35:11]:
Right. I mean, it’s Right. It’s like just. Yeah. We could villainize it, we could embrace it, or we can just ignore it.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:35:19]:
Yeah.

Amy Stone [00:35:20]:
Yeah.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:35:20]:
I think we have to redefine it.

Amy Stone [00:35:22]:
I think. Yeah. I mean, I think. And yeah. But I also am with you. I’m like, what does it even mean? Like, middle of.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:35:28]:
What is that?

Amy Stone [00:35:29]:
Yeah, middle of what?

Ann Alexander Seder [00:35:30]:
And it just. I mean. And how do you know?

Amy Stone [00:35:33]:
Right. Exactly. Exactly. I may have. You know. Exactly. Yeah.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:35:37]:
But like you said, I could live to be 200.

Amy Stone [00:35:39]:
There are, there are all these like secret rules and traditions that come along with it and expectations and, and, and none of they don’t seem to fit anymore. But the. Or maybe they don’t seem to fit certain people. But. All right, so we’re coming all the way to present. You relaunch your.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:35:55]:
Well, there, there, there’s a. It’s not. This is not the present. So this is about 11 years ago. And within a couple of years I had started to realize that what I had been relying on, which was luck when I was in my 20s, was not going to be so readily available to me in my 50s.

Amy Stone [00:36:13]:
Okay.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:36:14]:
And I also realized that while I felt very confident about my skill as an actor, I had no idea what it meant to be in the business of being an actor.

Amy Stone [00:36:25]:
Oh, because that’s what you are.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:36:26]:
You’re a solopreneur, right?

Amy Stone [00:36:27]:
Yeah.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:36:28]:
And that had never occurred to me. Is that what I signed up for? Not what I wanted? I am an artist through and through. You know, I’m like the creative, as they call it here in Germany, a creative chaot. Chaot, which is like creative chaos, basically. And in a way that’s like who I am. But I think I’m sort of split because I also have a very entrepreneurial side about me as well. And that’s when I realized, okay, well, if it’s a business, then I better figure out what business people do.

Amy Stone [00:36:59]:
Okay.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:37:00]:
Yeah. So what am I selling? What’s my brand? What? What? First of all, it started with my mindset, to be very honest.

Amy Stone [00:37:06]:
Yeah. Well, that is, if I am in business, what does that mean? That’s mindset. Yeah.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:37:11]:
Well. And if I want to relaunch my career as an almost 50 year old woman, what does that mean with people looking at me like, really? Is that.

Amy Stone [00:37:18]:
What does it mean? Please clue us in.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:37:21]:
Well, it means whatever you let it mean.

Amy Stone [00:37:24]:
Right.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:37:24]:
Is what it means. Right. Whether you think you can or you can’t.

Amy Stone [00:37:29]:
That’s right.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:37:29]:
Right. Yeah. So. And people were looking at me kind of sideways, you know, so. And I just had to kind of push it away and go, that’s okay, I get it. But it’s not going to stop me. And. But what I also realized was I did have some limiting beliefs around my age, around my lack of perfect German. And so these were two things I was not going to be changing.

Amy Stone [00:37:57]:
It’s hard to change rage, as you said.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:37:59]:
Right. We can’t go back.

Amy Stone [00:38:00]:
Sadly, we cannot. I mean, actually not sadly. I like totally aggressively am choosing to love aging because it’s the only choice.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:38:09]:
Yeah. It beats the alternative.

Amy Stone [00:38:11]:
It does.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:38:14]:
And so I became a life and career coach first to just overcome my own limiting beliefs around that. Like, and then I realized also, okay, I’m selling something, but I’m not exactly sure what I’m selling. Who am I now? As an actor? I was still sort of stuck in who I was and, you know, coming to that. So I worked with some branding coaches. Then that led to marketing to all of these different things. Right. And when I really started to buckle down and make a concentrated effort to understand what it was that makes me stand out. We’re all special. But what is special? I don’t know. Right. Most people just don’t know the answer to that. And if you don’t, I mean, there’s good news and bad news. We all have a brand. That’s the good news and the bad news. Right. So whether you work on it or not, you have a brand. We all do. And especially when you are the product.

Amy Stone [00:39:19]:
Right.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:39:20]:
And if you are not having a hand in shaping that brand, then you are missing out on helping people to understand what you bring to the table.

Amy Stone [00:39:32]:
Right. And it will be defined by how other people perceive you, which is you talked about it like you walked into the room and people were, like, casting you or shoeboxing you. Yeah, yeah. If you don’t participate. Yeah. If you don’t participate in it, that definitely is a thing. So is. So we’re supposed to talk for 30 minutes and we’re already over. So I’m hitting the fast forward button to make sure.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:39:55]:
Okay.

Amy Stone [00:39:55]:
Make sure we get through that. That bring. Does that bring us to the creation of Act Bold, which is.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:40:03]:
Yes. So. So Act Bold came about because I had always organized these workshops. That was under the actors Atelier. Then I had relaunched Act Bold, but kind of it was more just to do workshops whenever I needed money.

Amy Stone [00:40:19]:
Right.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:40:20]:
So, like, if I needed something to finance a short film, whatever it was, then I would throw on a workshop for that. So my objective had changed. It had been originally just to get the training, Then it became to get money. Extra money.

Amy Stone [00:40:32]:
Yeah.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:40:32]:
And then ultimately, most recently the past three, four years, it was to network on a whole different level with people that I want to work with. So inviting casting directors, other filmmakers to come and do a workshop and then being able to have these conversations and everything around that. And also when I started working on my branding, my opportunities to audition really, like, jumped way up. They got much better and they. The roles were much better and the. My bookings were better. Everything was better. And of course, then people were like, oh, how’d you get that? And then that sort of led to one on one, which very quickly led to my signature program for actors, which is called Get Better Roles. That’s where I help trained actors who’ve been in the business for at least a couple of years to understand how to stand out, articulate what makes them special, and create more opportunities for themselves so they can get better roles, basically, is what it boils down to.

Amy Stone [00:41:33]:
So one quick question, and then I’m going to. Because this what you did is really like a masterclass in, like, business building in a lot of ways. Did you have any expectation that when you leaned into the life and career coaching and we’re putting together workshops, that it would have the magnification effect that it did on your casting opportunities? Like, did you see that coming? Yeah, that’s the thing that I like because we think that very often in my own life. And so that’s the question I wanted to bring. It’s like you have to head down a road to know where it’s going, because so often we think that we’re doing something for one reason, and then something completely different happens.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:42:20]:
Well, it’s interesting you say a masterclass because this is where Passion Project of Pro was born from.

Amy Stone [00:42:26]:
Right. And that is. Yeah.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:42:28]:
Where I help people turn what they love into what they do without having to be an expert influencer or coach.

Amy Stone [00:42:36]:
That’s beautiful.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:42:37]:
So it’s, it’s exactly what I did to bridge that gap between my passion and making it my profession, because I’ve coached with James Wedmore, Amy Porterfield, Sunny Leonard, like all of these really big names in the coaching.

Amy Stone [00:42:52]:
That is the, like, that is. That is that you just listed, like the hierarchy of the buzzwords in digital entrepreneurship.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:42:58]:
Totally.

Amy Stone [00:42:58]:
Yeah. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:43:00]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in at least once a week, somebody will post in one of these communities. I’m really dealing with imposter syndrome. Anybody else or how do you guys deal with this? And like, 97 people will respond, oh, my God, me too.

Amy Stone [00:43:16]:
Yeah.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:43:17]:
And the problem is, is we, many of us have been convinced, and I’m not saying that they do this because they do say to be an expert.

Amy Stone [00:43:30]:
Right.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:43:31]:
But there are also. The message is also there of just be two steps ahead. And I think when you’re only two steps ahead of someone, you’re always looking over your shoulder, like, waiting for people to catch up to you, and you, you are not feeling safe and secure in your place. So by. So the whole point of Passion Project to Pro is I, I take people from whatever their passion is, whether that’s foraging for edible fauna, mushrooms, whatever, you know, caterpillar farming.

Amy Stone [00:44:02]:
Caterpillar farming on a lavender farm.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:44:06]:
It honestly, as long as it doesn’t require a higher degree, and it’s something that you could learn from experts and coaches. There are plenty of those. And you are really becoming a curator of experts and you are able to learn alongside them, alongside the participants. So it goes from ideation to the second to last time we meet is right before they launch their own workshop. But of course, I take them through how to find the experts, how to find the other participants, how to price it, how to find the venues, how to know what kind of workshop you want to run, whether it’s online, in person, retreat, whatever. Right. There’s a thousand different possibilities. And then the very last time we get together is a debrief. How did your event go? What went well? What would you change and when are you doing the next one? So that by the time they finish the eight weeks that we spend together, they will have earned back their investment from the course and I can give them like a 100% solid win.

Amy Stone [00:45:13]:
Okay. So I use the example of a caterpillar farmer, which I don’t even know if that’s a real thing. Probably it is, actually. Probably it is. True story. When I first went early, like decades ago, when I was looking for inspiration and expanders for people who are creating businesses, one of my mentors was somebody who built a thriving business with sauerkraut, like teaching people how to ferment things like sauerkraut. And I remember listening to this interview and she had a massive email list and a thriving business. And I would tell myself anytime I was about to chicken out, I was like, if she can do this, teaching people to ferment cabbage, like, I cannot come with up with any excuses. So tell people where they can tell people your website address, and then I’m going to tell them about the offer that you’ve made for the audience.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:46:02]:
Amazing. Okay, so you can find me@act-bold.com My name is Anne Alexander Seder Sie D E R. I’m all over the place. Very easy to find online or Actbold training without any dashes or anything.com as well.

Amy Stone [00:46:21]:
And I will put all of that in the show notes. And also if you’re on the imperfect adulting email list, it’s a link that you can click on, which is absolutely the best way to get the information. You have been so generous to offer the audience the passion project to Pro Workbook, which normally is $27, but the people who are in the audience can get it for free by clicking on a link. And this is a link that has, like, stuff in it. So you definitely want to go to the show notes or be on the email list to get that. That’s super generous. I want to thank you for making that offer. We’re going to close this up. Oh, you’re welcome. Sorry. So we’re going to close this up with three ridiculous questions. Neither one of us have a talent for brevity, I gotta say. It’s not our strong suit. The challenge in this is keeping the answer short.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:47:08]:
Okay.

Amy Stone [00:47:09]:
Truth is that it’s never the guest that messes it up. It’s always me. So I am the problem. But let’s do it anyway. We are recording this in December. I did not know you were in Germany when I wrote this question. We’re going to see if it even makes any sense. My mind is on fall and winter holidays. If you have the choice between pumpkin spice or minty chocolate as a seasonal flavoring, which do you choose? Minty chocolate chocolate. Me too. I. Me too. Okay. Do you like to eat out in restaurants? This is an excellent question. Since you’ve lived all over the world, so. And if you like to eat in restaurants, can you think of the single worst meal you were ever served?

Ann Alexander Seder [00:47:51]:
Oh, man, I love to eat in restaurants. We eat really well. So I’m going to say that I can tell you the most over price meal we sure had. Yeah, it was like an 11 course meal and like one of the courses was the bread basket and it was just ridiculous.

Amy Stone [00:48:10]:
Like a Michelin.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:48:11]:
It was.

Amy Stone [00:48:11]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:48:13]:
In, in Greece. That was.

Amy Stone [00:48:15]:
Yeah, the Michelin. My, my husband went through a thing where he wanted to really enjoy Michelin type things. We went to several and I finally had to like sit him down and be like, you are a family style restaurant person. Stop making these reservations.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:48:28]:
Right. We went to one Michelin.

Amy Stone [00:48:31]:
They’re like, here’s a, here’s a nugget and a leaf. And this is a. You know, and this. Totally.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:48:36]:
I was just going to say that it was one of those. What do they call it? The molecular cooking.

Amy Stone [00:48:42]:
I’ve never done that, but I’ve seen pictures.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:48:44]:
Yeah. And so one of the courses, I thought she was kidding. I literally laughed. She brought me like a dome and it had smoke in it and she lifted it up and waved it in.

Amy Stone [00:48:54]:
Front of my nose and that was it. And that was it.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:48:57]:
We went to McDonald’s after this meal.

Amy Stone [00:48:59]:
That’s the, that’s the, that’s, that’s that. We ended up at a pizza place after, like wine, you know, $1,000 to pay for the meal and then you go to get pizza afterwards. Exactly. It’s like, it’s so funny. All right, very good. Last one. What is the most recent or last book that you either read or listened to or if that’s not what you do, like a movie or a show that you streamed or watched that you enjoyed.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:49:22]:
Oh, man. Baby reindeer.

Amy Stone [00:49:25]:
Oh, that’s so good.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:49:27]:
It was so good. So good.

Amy Stone [00:49:29]:
Oh, my gosh. That was such a good series. I’d forgotten about that. That’s a good one. That is a good one. I love that. All right, thank you very much. Alexander Seder, thank you for being a wonderful guest on the Art of Imperfect Adulting.

Ann Alexander Seder [00:49:42]:
Amy Stone, thank you very much for having me.