Success can be deceiving. From the outside, everything looks polished: the career trajectory is solid, the credentials are impressive, and the routine runs like clockwork. But inside, there’s a nagging question that won’t go away: Is this all there is? For Gwendolyn Dolske, a philosophy professor in Los Angeles, that question arrived in her late thirties with unsettling clarity. She had everything she’d worked toward including a PhD, tenure, published research, respect from colleagues. Yet she felt trapped in a cycle that had become predictable to the point of suffocation.
“I was like a hamster on a wheel,” Dolske said. “Prepare for this semester. Go. Great relationship with the students. But then I say bye. After 15 weeks, brand new set of students. And in between, try to write an academic paper to show my peers.”
The comfort zone that had once felt like achievement had calcified into something else entirely. At 41, Dolske made a decision that would force her to confront fears about technology, public scrutiny, and her own perfectionism. She launched a podcast. Her story illuminates a crucial truth about personal growth: sometimes the most profound changes come not from abandoning what we know, but from finding new ways to express who we’ve become.
When Expertise Becomes Confinement
The paradox of deep expertise is that it can simultaneously validate and limit us. Dolske spent years cultivating her authority in philosophy, building a career that allowed her to explore ideas with depth and rigor. The classroom became her natural habitat, a place where she was unquestionably the smartest person in the room, at least about the subject matter.
But expertise has a shadow side. The more proficient we become in one domain, the more threatening it feels to be a beginner again. For Dolske, this manifested in a professional life that had lost its spark. The academic conferences featured audiences who already understood the concepts. The rhythm of semesters created perpetual endings without lasting connections.
“There wasn’t an excitement about it anymore,” Dolske said. “I just needed more from my studies.”
The realization came gradually, accompanied by changes in her personal life. A long-term relationship that had once worked no longer fit who she was becoming. She found herself commuting long distances, listening to podcasts, and wondering what existed beyond the walls of academia. The question wasn’t whether her work had value. Because, it clearly did. The question was whether she was still growing.
This distinction matters. Many people confuse comfort zones with competence, assuming that mastery in one area means we’ve reached our full potential. But comfort zones aren’t about skill level. They’re about the absence of challenge, the predictable loop that no longer demands we stretch. Recognizing this difference is the first step toward intentional change.
The Cost of Playing It Safe
When Dolske decided to launch a podcast, she confronted fears that extended far beyond learning new technology. As a woman in academia, she had internalized specific anxieties about perception and credibility. The stakes felt higher for her than they might for male colleagues.
“I think I do have that guard up because I don’t want to look stupid or sound foolish,” Dolske said. “And part of that might just be from conditioning. That might be from the fact that there’s not that many women in academia or that when women present as an authority that they have this extra existential hurdle, that the cost of making an error is a little bit bigger.”
She referenced the cultural double standard that allows male professors to be charmingly absent-minded while women in similar situations risk being dismissed as airheads. This awareness of scrutiny created layers of resistance to trying something new. Podcasting meant stepping out of the institutional framework that had granted her authority. It meant risking public failure, negative comments from strangers, and judgment from colleagues who might view the project as unserious.
The vulnerability compounded with other concerns about visibility. She worried about putting her face in front of cameras in a culture that prioritizes youth and beauty, especially for women. At 41, she questioned whether there was space for her in media.
Yet these fears revealed something important: the greatest obstacles to growth often aren’t practical barriers but internalized narratives about who we’re allowed to be. Dolske recognized that her perfectionism, while useful in academic writing, had become restrictive. The need to appear flawless was preventing her from experimenting, from learning in public, from finding new audiences for the work she loved.
Do Good Work and People Will Come to You
The turning point came through a conversation with a successful writer friend. When Dolske expressed anxiety about whether anyone would listen to her podcast or whether guests would agree to be interviewed, he offered advice that shifted her entire approach.
“Do good work and people will come to you,” he told her.
That simple reframe changed everything. Instead of fixating on external validation or imagined criticism, Dolske redirected her energy toward the quality of what she was creating. This wasn’t about abandoning self-awareness or ignoring feedback. It was about reordering priorities—putting the work itself first, rather than anticipated reactions to it.
She applied this principle broadly, encouraging her students to avoid checking phones first thing in the morning. “You’re doing a couple of things,” Dolske explained. “You’re looking at what other people are doing, or you’re looking at what other people think about you. And the first part of your day should be about what you want to get out of the day.”
With co-host Rudy Salo, a finance lawyer with interests spanning science fiction and stand-up comedy, Dolske launched “Good Is in the Details.” The concept was straightforward but ambitious: take university-level philosophical inquiry and make it accessible to general audiences through interviews with experts across diverse fields. They’ve explored everything from the cultural significance of haunted house movies to the ethics underlying homicide prosecution.
The response validated her instinct that there was an audience hungry for intellectual depth outside academic gatekeeping. Students who had taken philosophy courses years earlier would email to say a movie had reminded them of a class discussion. People seemed to genuinely enjoy thinking deeply about meaning, free will, and existence. Tthey just lacked accessible venues for those conversations.
“I thought maybe we create another space in the podcast world where it’s okay to nerd out and just think deeply for a while,” Dolske said.
When Life Forces You to Let Go
In 2019, the same year Dolske decided to launch her podcast, she discovered she was pregnant. This was something doctors had told her was highly unlikely. The timing seemed impossible. She was learning new technology, figuring out audio editing, and developing interview skills while entering an entirely unfamiliar phase of life.
Then came 2020, and lockdown, and suddenly Dolske was home with a newborn, still teaching, still podcasting, and documenting the surreal experience of processing a global pandemic in real time. The historical record of those episodes captures the uncertainty everyone felt, filtered through philosophical inquiry.
Counterintuitively, motherhood helped Dolske release her grip on perfectionism. When you’re dealing with a crying baby or cleaning up bodily fluids and then need to hit record, pristine presentation becomes impossible. Some episodes included her daughter’s giggles or cries in the background. Dolske chose not to edit them out.
“I’m like, hey, this is the imperfect adulting,” she said. “I’m not going to go ahead and pretend that I’m juggling everything perfectly because what happens is that when she is all taken care of, then that means maybe I haven’t showered. If all my emails are answered, that means a podcast is not getting released.”
This forced vulnerability became liberating. The need to control every variable dissolved in the face of real-world chaos. Dolske learned that when something goes sideways, it doesn’t have to derail everything. It just becomes part of the story, part of what makes life interesting rather than sterile.
The shift reflects a deeper understanding of what stepping outside comfort zones actually means. It’s not just about pushing yourself through difficult challenges like an intense workout. It’s about allowing yourself to exist in uncertainty, to not know if you’ll succeed, to accept that you might look foolish or make mistakes, and doing it anyway.
Building Novelty Into Your Life
Looking back, Dolske recognizes that her craving for novelty has always been part of her personality. In Los Angeles, with its countless restaurants, she prefers exploring new places rather than returning to favorites. This preference for fresh experiences extends beyond dining. It’s a fundamental approach to living.
“I just need something new,” Dolske said. “And philosophy offered that for me because I could study and read so many different things and make it make sense.”
But she’s careful to note this isn’t universal. Some people genuinely find deep satisfaction in consistency and familiar rhythms. The key is honest self-assessment: Are you in a comfort zone because it authentically serves your needs, or because you’re afraid of what exists beyond it?
For those who do crave expansion, building novelty into life requires intentionality. It means noticing when routines have become ruts, when expertise has become an excuse to stop learning, when relationships have outlived their fit. It means having the courage to let things end; not because they’re bad, but because they no longer align with who you’re becoming.
Dolske addresses this directly regarding her previous relationship. The person who was right for her late twenties no longer matched her evolution. Rather than viewing the ending as failure, she reframes it as a natural conclusion to something that had run its course.
“Sometimes relationships, because you change and you grow, this happens with friendships, and this can happen with romantic partners,” Dolske said. “And I think women in particular feel a lot of guilt or shame, as though there’s a failure. And I like to say, no, it was an end to a relationship. It no longer made sense.”
This perspective removes the moral judgment from change itself. Growth isn’t betrayal. Evolving interests aren’t character flaws. The guilt that often accompanies outgrowing situations—whether professional or personal—can be examined and released.
The Welcoming Nature of New Communities
One of Dolske’s surprises was discovering how supportive the podcasting community proved to be. She had anticipated competitiveness or gatekeeping similar to academic environments. Instead, she found people eager to share tips, introduce potential guests, and celebrate each other’s work.
“The podcast space is so welcoming,” Dolske said. “And I was allowed to be my nerdy bookish self.”
This permission to bring her full identity into a new space felt cathartic. In social settings, she had learned to curb her enthusiasm for philosophical discussions—nobody wants to debate the meaning of life at Friday night parties. But podcasting created room for that part of her personality to flourish outside the classroom.
The experience illustrates an often-overlooked benefit of stepping into new domains: you might find your people. The communities that exist around our comfort zones can become insular. Branching out exposes us to different networks, different values, different ways of connecting.
For Dolske, this meant discovering an audience that valued intellectual depth without requiring academic credentials. It meant interviewing experts whose work excited her and having conversations that would never fit into a traditional conference format. It meant, fundamentally, creating the space she had been missing.
Finding the Why Behind The Why
During their conversation, Amy Stone posed a question that cut to the heart of intentional change: “What would you say now was the real “why” it was important for you to get out of your comfort zone?”
The question invited reflection beyond surface motivations. Dolske’s answer revealed that the drive for novelty is embedded in her personality, but also that she had reached a point where comfort had become stagnant. The academic hamster wheel wasn’t challenging her anymore. She needed to reclaim the curiosity that had drawn her to philosophy in the first place—the spark that returned when she read Socrates as a college freshman grieving her father’s death.
“That spark was back,” Dolske said about discovering philosophy. “I loved what I was reading. I just didn’t want to do anything except for study that.”
Decades later, launching a podcast became a way to reignite that same intensity of engagement. The why wasn’t about external achievement or proving anything to others. It was about internal aliveness, about staying true to a fundamental need for growth and discovery.
At 47 now, with years of podcasting experience and a young daughter, Dolske embodies a different version of herself than the one who felt stuck at 37. The transformation didn’t require abandoning her career or expertise. It required adding dimensions, embracing vulnerability, and accepting that perfection isn’t the goal: engagement is.
Her story offers a roadmap for anyone sensing that their comfort zone has become confining. Start by noticing the difference between competence and complacency. Examine fears about perception and ask whether they serve you or limit you. Find people who will energize rather than discourage your experiments. Focus on doing good work rather than controlling how it’s received. And perhaps most importantly, give yourself permission to be a beginner again, to fumble with new technology, to risk looking foolish in pursuit of something that makes you feel alive.
The comfort zone isn’t inherently wrong. But when it stops facilitating growth and starts preventing it, recognizing that shift becomes crucial. Sometimes the bravest thing we can do is admit that what once served us no longer does. Then take a step, however uncertainly, toward whatever comes next.
This article was inspired by an interview with Gwendolyn Dolske and Amy Stone on The Art of Imperfect Adulting podcast. https://imperfect-adulting.captivate.fm/listen https://www.youtube.com/@imperfectadulting To hear more compelling conversations like this one and receive special offers from our guests directly to your inbox, join our email community today.
Full Interview Transcript: Saying Yes to Discomfort and New Beginnings with Gwendolyn Dolske
Amy Stone [00:00:06]:
Gwendolyn Dolske, welcome to the Art of Imperfect Adulting. I’m happy you’re here. Are you ready for a fun chat?
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:00:12]:
I am. Thank you for having me.
Amy Stone [00:00:14]:
You are welcome. I’m excited. All right, so I start all of my conversations with the same question. I’m curious, what part of the world do you call home?
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:00:23]:
I’m in Los Angeles, California.
Amy Stone [00:00:26]:
Fantastic. All right, next warm up question, because we’re just getting to know each other a little tiny bit. What is a way that you like to transition from being very busy to downtime?
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:00:38]:
So whenever I’m stressed or I have a lot, I read mystery novels. I don’t know what it is, but it’s even the process of going to the bookstore and actually looking at all the titles and then having a thriller that I can’t put down. And I think it’s because it gets my mind out of the space of everything else. I can just lose myself into some kind of, like, Agatha Christie esque problem and it just relaxes me.
Amy Stone [00:01:05]:
Very good answer. Do you like to read book books or do you use an E reader like a Kindle?
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:01:12]:
I prefer book books.
Amy Stone [00:01:14]:
All right.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:01:15]:
I do. I do have a Kindle. But you know what the problem is, is that I don’t remember the books on the Kindle. And it turns out that when you read something electronically, it doesn’t stick with you in the same way a physical book would. But for me, the physical books are almost like a. Like a photo album. I can pull out any book from the shelf and tell you when I bought it, why I bought it. Like, there’s something very special about the physical book for me.
Amy Stone [00:01:39]:
Yeah, no, I. They’re definitely different mediums. I like both. Also. I like the fact that the Kindle has the light in it so I don’t have to have other lights. It’s a weird reason to pick a way to read, but I recently left a Kindle on an airplane and had to go without for like seven or eight days. And it was a real, real first world hardship. Nobody, nobody should feel sorry for me that I had to go and get an actual book. Anyway, topic of the day, not me leaving things on airplanes. We’re going to talk about you making a decision to get out of your comfort zone. Are you ready for this conversation?
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:02:17]:
Yes.
Amy Stone [00:02:18]:
All right.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:02:19]:
Very good. I don’t think I’m totally out of my comfort zone, but okay. Yeah.
Amy Stone [00:02:24]:
So as is usual for me, this is the very first conversation that you and I have. We don’t know each other. In any other way. I don’t actually know very much about you at all. What I know is that you made a change at age 41. So what I want to talk about is a little bit about what makes you tick and what your comfort zone looked like before you made this change. So when you were in your mid-30s. Ish. Let’s talk about what your job was and your career.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:02:52]:
Yeah, the, the job was the same. I actually still have the same position. And it was. It’s just routine. It is. I’m a professor at a university. I do my research. I would go, I would publish, I would go to academic conferences. And when you go to the academic conferences, you have an audience that is, you know, you’re. They all know what you’re talking about. I mean, they can, they can help you work out ideas, but there wasn’t an excite about it anymore. And so I just found myself that I was like a hamster on a wheel. Okay, prepare for this semester. Go. Great relationship with the students. But then I say bye. After 15 weeks, brand new set of students. And in between, try to write an academic paper to show my peers. And I just needed more from my studies. My studies is in philosophy. I have a PhD in philosophy. And I just wanted something outside of the walls of academia.
Amy Stone [00:03:48]:
All right, so academia was the comfort zone. And had you always. When I, if we, if I was to have met you when you were like 12 or 13, had you always wanted a career and a life in academia? Was that your dream?
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:04:03]:
I didn’t know that it was a possibility because it’s not one of the things that’s mentioned when you’re a kid. It’s like you can be a doctor or a police officer or athlete. Like being in philosophy didn’t really exist. And I will say that my, it does align with my personality. So when I was younger, I was always very curious. I, I didn’t really accept a lot of things that were put in front of me. I had to know more. I had to have a deeper understanding. I would get in trouble for talking too much. And now I do that for a living. Like, I literally speak to people all the time. So it was in there that desire to understand more and being a bit of a talker about, you know, working out ideas.
Amy Stone [00:04:48]:
So then how did you get. Find your way to philosophy? Because, and I’m. I ask this just, just because I’m very curious. I would love to be a fly on the wall. When you were considering degree programs and doctorate programs and jobs, how did you pick philosophy. And what did you think the job would be with that?
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:05:08]:
That’s a good question.
Amy Stone [00:05:09]:
So especially since like, not in ancient Greece when like philosophers were like, you know, a dime a dozen, I feel, you know.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:05:16]:
Well, when I was in high school, I went through, I had very good friends in a very good school, but I went through a rather difficult time at home. And it was because my, my father had passed away and that had, and I’m an only child. It had a real impact on the relationship I had with my mother because she was of course, dealing with this as well. And I mean the, the kind of. I didn’t experience grief, I experienced anger and real resentment and my grades dipped a lot. And I’m so grateful that I had teachers and I had friends and my friends, parents were all there for me, but it was really a challenge to get out of that slump. And when I did go into university and my freshman year I took my first philosophy class, it. That spark was back. It was back. I loved what I was reading. We started with Socrates, this classical work of the apology. It’s a defense, it’s his, it’s his trial where he’s talking about what it means to live life well. And I just didn’t want to do anything except for study that. And because I was studying that and I was so alive, enriched with it that all of my other studies also accelerated. I had to find that thing that would bring me back to life. And that was it. It was the space that allowed me to be the, you know, the person who wants deeper meaning, the person who wants to argue, who wants to understand ide ideas. Philosophy allowed that space for me. And philosophy means love of wisdom. And so that’s a pretty big ballpark. I can, as somebody who studies philosophy, examine a piece of literature and I can also try to understand Brian Greene and string theory. Because the scope of what’s possible to understand is just, it’s like the world is at your fingertips with philosophy. So it allowed for that, you know, that space to go in whatever direction I wanted.
Amy Stone [00:07:11]:
I love that. I love that. So if you had not become a teacher, I have a couple of people who are in college at the moment, so these are very selfish questions. I’m asking about a degree that does not have a ready made job attached to it. So if you had not gone into academia with your doctorate, what do you think would be the applications? What do you think you might have done as somebody who studied philosophy?
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:07:37]:
Well, I, when I graduated, I applied, I took the LSAT and The GRE I applied to, you know, and I got into both law school and graduate school. So I was really sit with, you know, a conundrum.
Amy Stone [00:07:49]:
Okay.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:07:49]:
And I had to be honest with myself and that I had said law school, I think, to make everybody else comfortable. Because when you say you’re a philosophy major, the question is, what are you going to do with that? What are you going to do?
Amy Stone [00:08:01]:
That is what I’m asking 100%. I’m.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:08:04]:
So I said I even worked in a law office. I mean, I, you know, I, I did all the things, but I was just so drawn to the literature. And when people ask me, you know, like, how did you choose it? And I say it chose me. It’s like, I didn’t decide to like chocolate either. I just tasted it and I liked it. And it’s the same thing with philosophy. But to answer your question in a more concrete and practical manner, there is a growing number of people in the business space, in the corporate world, that are seeking employees with humanities like degrees. And the reason is because they’re better at understanding points of view, at communication and research and analyzing things. So when you have a philosophy degree, you are armed with the skill set of critical thinking and breaking down arguments. It’s great for advertising, it’s great for rhetoric, it’s great for speech writing. There’s a lot of people, I mean, I’m in Los Angeles. There’s a lot of people in the television and film industry. The writers have a minor in philosophy. So. And even in politics, Martin Luther King studied philosophy, Thomas Jefferson studied philosophy. So it is really, it’s not narrow, like, let’s say getting an engineering degree. Right? Like, you don’t go to get an engineering degree just to ponder engineering. Right. You have some sort of a concrete output there. But with philosophy, it is just arming you with that ability to recognize information, good information, assess it, and, you know, tell a story every once in a while at the holiday parties.
Amy Stone [00:09:46]:
No, I love it. All right. Thank you for humoring me as we went down that rabbit hole. But it’s not every day that I talk to somebody who’s got a doctorate in philosophy. I did the other day talk to somebody who had a degree in rhetoric, which that’s the first person I had ever known who directly got that. I did not know that was eth thing. So I learn new things all of the time. Okay, so tell me more about the. This part of your life, like the second half of your 30s. Because there was a change that happened in the beginning of your 40s, so you’ve got a successful career in academia. You love the topics that you’re doing, you’re talking about, tell me about family, kids, hobbies, friends. What is the full picture of your life look like at that time? Right before you say, I need a new challenge.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:10:36]:
I was commuting a lot and I ended up listening to podcasts as I was commuting. And I started to think, you know, just more about that process. And I was in this point when the picture of my life in my 30s was. It was this rotation. And as far as relationships, I was in a long term relationship, but the person I was in the relationship with didn’t really have like a curious spirit. So if there was any activity, traveling or anything, it was always on my shoulders. And I felt very trapped. I felt very like I needed, I just needed more in every way from work, from relationships, and there were no children. And so when I decided to part ways, then it was really like, okay, I gotta figure this out. I gotta step into the life, the curiosity, the adventures. It’s up to me now. And so it was a solitary existence for a while. I mean, I had my friends and everything, but it gave me the space to really consider, wait a minute, what is it that I want to do with this degree? What is it I want to do with my life? So it’s very solitary. And then when I started dating again, like around 39, 40, then I, you know, added. Added love to my life, added something new.
Amy Stone [00:12:03]:
All right, so would you say that at this point in your mid-30s, when you’re going through a relationship change, you’re questioning what you’re doing, is one of the questions is rattling around your head like, hey, is this, is this at all I’m going to do? Is this it? Is this?
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:12:17]:
Yeah.
Amy Stone [00:12:17]:
Okay.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:12:18]:
I felt like, oh, wow, my life is determined and this is it for the next 30 years. And something that was kind of painful about it is that on the outside nobody would have known because.
Amy Stone [00:12:31]:
Right.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:12:31]:
They could see that I was publishing, that I was working, that I, you know, had relation, good relationships with my students. Like, they’d write positive things. Like on the outside it looked like I was doing what I was supposed to be doing and doing it well. And. But on the inside I felt very isolated and I just, you know, like the, the curious spirit had just kind of deadened by, by both the relationship choice and also by the work choice. I want to be cautious, though, about the relationship choice. Let me just say this. As far as the imperfect adulting though, a lot of times we say that, like, you know, it has to go forever, and then that’s what makes a relationship good. I wouldn’t say that. The person I had met in earlier, like, in my late 20s, was a great fit for me in my late 20s. And sometimes relations, because you change and you grow. This happens with friendships, and this can happen with romantic partners. And I think women in particular feel a lot of guilt or shame, as though there’s a failure. And I like to say, no, it was an end to a relationship. It no longer made sense. And so I just want to say that because I don’t want to sound like I’m throwing that person under the bus.
Amy Stone [00:13:47]:
I didn’t get the impression that you were throwing them under the bus, but that’s a very good point of clarity, and it is absolutely true. Like, one of the ways to look at relationships is that they all actually end at some point. So, like, if you think about it that way, the concept of forever is a little bit confusing. There’s a professor named Stephanie Kunst, and she wrote a book about the history of marriage. Right. And what’s really, really interesting is at the turn of the century, not the last one, but the one before it, the average length of a marriage was, I think, 10 years. And the reasons were obviously different than they are because divorces were not a thing, and now they’re right about 12 years. And so there’s like a. There’s like a concept that there was a time in history where they, like, they may have been forever, but forever had a different time frame. Forever at a different time frame. We, you know, we have different concepts here. So people. People do think about it differently, and that’s not to. Whatever works for people. If your relationship is 50 or 60 or 70 years, great. If you change relationships every five or six years, fine with me. Moving on. All right, so when we started this conversation, I would put dollars to donuts that people would have guessed that this was going to go the way of Chang career. But that isn’t actually what happened. You add to it. You decide when you are 41 years old that you’re going to start a podcast. And this, for you, is outside of your comfort zone. And I love this that this is outside of your comfort zone, because obviously, for me, this is not outside my comfort zone. I’m just a person who is like, sure, I’ll talk into a microphone, but also, you’re a person who had a pretty good skill set of speaking in front of groups. So as a teacher, and as an authority. And so I’m really interested in know, what was it about the podcasting project that felt uncomfortable and maybe a little scary?
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:15:37]:
Yeah, like, will anybody listen? You know, it’s different when you’re at the university and people are paying and you know, you, you, when you in the university, like in the classroom, I walk into the room and I’m the smartest one there. I mean, not in all ways, but you know what I mean? And so it’s already established. But with podcasting, the, the goal with the podcast was to see if I could take this university type studies that we’re doing and offer it to a broad audience. So not gatekeep what one pays an exorbitant amount of money for education in the classroom and do it in a fun way. But this of course would mean that my abilities as a teacher, as a communicator were really going to be tested against, you know, the worldwide web. And I was definitely scared. What, what do I sound like? What if I say something dumb or if nobody listens or of, you know, that’s all of those fears because it’s no longer the place where I’m used to speaking. It’s.
Amy Stone [00:16:35]:
Yeah.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:16:35]:
For two people I don’t know. And you know, the Internet can be cool. I was also afraid of, you know, what are comments that people are going to write publicly, like that kind of thing. And I also, you know, the, the goal of it or I mean the, the idea behind it was to interview experts from different fields. So I, I was putting myself in the position of a student and publicly and not as the authority which had been, you know, my go to my comfort zone was the one who was explaining everything to everybody with this. I’m interviewing people who have a scope of knowledge way outside of my expertise and learning from them. So that’s, you know, part of the hesitation and also just the technology, like I’m Gen X like you. I, I’m like, I know Microsoft Word. I mean, I read Arist. I don’t need technology for that. So it meant sitting down and learning how it all works from scratch.
Amy Stone [00:17:35]:
All right, so that you. That was a wonderful answer. I love that you talked about. You were afraid that nobody was going to listen. And also the reaction if people listened, because that’s one of the things. If nobody listens, it’s actually very safe. You can make a lot of mistakes and no one’s going to hear it. So. But it’s like no one’s going to listen. Who am I to do this? Starting over as a beginner, when you’ve been the authority in a classroom, starting a project where you don’t have the credibility of an institution announcing you as, you know, the authority figure in the room, I think those are good things to think about, for sure. Okay, so here’s a question. This is a fun question to ask for me, even though it’s probably a little bit flawed, because I’m asking you to think about something that you’ve actually already done. Thinking back to why you wanted to do this, what would you say now was the real. Was the why before why it was important for you to get out of your comfort zone?
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:18:32]:
Why was it important to get out of my comfort zone? Yeah, you know, I think it’s. I think it’s innate to people. I think it’s. With my. My personality type. It’s not that way for. For everybody. There’s people who, you know, really find comfort and joy in. In a space. And for me, I have always kind of craved novelty. I’ve always craved, like, I want to. I mean, in Los Angeles, just a small example, there’s tons of restaurants. I don’t like to go to the same one. I want to look up and go to a different one. So that’s just always been my spirit, that I just need something new. And the, you know, philosophy offered that for me because, like I said, I could study and read so many different things and make it make sense. And then with the podcasting, I can reach out to people and, you know, that have never met in real life, or if I had gone and seen one of their events, I would have maybe elbowed my way to the front to say, hi, nice talk, and that’s it. But now I can, you know, see people who are coming up with something new. So it’s the. The newness that is important for me to have a good quality of life. But I want to emphasize that’s. That’s my thing.
Amy Stone [00:19:42]:
Yeah. Not everybody is somebody that pushes the boundaries in all places, all the time. And it’s so. But okay, so. And does this show up in other spots of your life? Like, you mentioned the restaurants? Like, are you a person who is constantly sort of pushing yourself to excel in all different ways and find new challenges?
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:19:59]:
I. I don’t know if it’s pushing. I think it’s. It’s really like, I just want to learn new things. I don’t know if. I don’t know if it’s pushing. I think it’s something that’s really natural. I am a bit of a perfectionist. Like, I think I do have that, you know, that guard up because I don’t want to look stupid or sound foolish. And part of that might just be from conditioning. That might be from the fact that there’s not that many women in academia or that when women present as an authority that they have like this extra existential hurdle, that the cost of making an error is a little bit bigger. Like you can have the male professor who’s the absent minded professor, and that’s all kind of fun and quirky, but if for a woman it would be. She’s an airhead, you know, it’s not quite the same thing. And I think that maybe that has just resonated with me, you know, a bit more like a bit of a fear of perception. Because I feel like so much is at stake.
Amy Stone [00:21:01]:
Yes, I think that’s a. An excellent topic. So I’m going to take a break and talk directly to the audience for a second. Invite them into this conversation because it’s a good place to do it. I post a discussion topic on social media on YouTube, Facebook and Instagram for every single episode. And I invite you guys to come and join the conversation. Answer the question, I’ll be there in the comments. Gwendolyn will be there in the comments. Everybody will be there from the community. It’s a fun thing to do. If you don’t already follow the show on social media, you’ll find the links in the show notes. All right, picking up where we left off. You bring up a really interesting point about being about the difference between perception sometimes or perceived perception, we could say, between men and women in different roles. I want to talk about your mindset as a 41 year old woman who decides to intentionally put yourself out there in podcasting and the media. So what you shared on your intake form was because I think the wording you used is really, really good. You said you needed to address the lingering sense of vulnerability that comes with being in the media space, especially as a woman of a certain age. And I love that you use the word certain age. And it’s only 41. So anyway, that’s a.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:22:10]:
Well, I was 41 when I started. I’m 47 now.
Amy Stone [00:22:13]:
Yeah, but a certain age, like when I read that I was like 41. Is that the certain age? I’m not sure. Like I would have thought like, you know, so I think that’s really. I think it’s a very, very real thing this. Do I fit into the mold that it looks like this is going to Be things on media are very visual now like they haven’t ever been before. Share what some of your thoughts were as you were getting ready to, you know, tell people you had this idea, whether you were going to speak it into the world. When you were pitching the concept to people and thinking about it, what was going through your mind about this scrutiny?
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:22:49]:
I. One of my good friends who is a successful writer in his own. In his own right, and I was talking to him about advice, and he said, do good work and people will come to you. And that, that changed my perspective because I also was worried, can I get any guests when I’m reaching out? How do I even do this? And what if nobody wants to come on the podcast? And he said, do good work and people will come to you. And that really stuck with me. So then I started to, you know, put my area of focus more on what it is that I’m doing instead of what other people are thinking. And I try to keep that in mind even when, you know, I’m talking to my students or doing some sort of a. I try to encourage people to not look at their phones first thing in the morning because you’re doing a couple of things. You’re looking at what other people are doing, or you’re looking at what other people think about you. And the first part of your day should be about what you want to get out of the day. So I think that the, the vulnerability is. Yeah, being open. Other people can hear me. I mean, people I knew when I was a kid, I’m like, wondering, are they going to listen to this and think, oh, this is the dumbest thing. Who does she think she is? I was worried with the university thing. This is so unserious of her. This is so unbecoming. You know, I, I was concerned about all of those things. And the vulnerability, of course, of when I say women of a certain age is that, you know, like youth and beauty is. Is prioritized. And so I was very worried about putting my face out there because I didn’t. I didn’t want to deal with that kind of a stress.
Amy Stone [00:24:27]:
Yeah.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:24:27]:
So I think that was the vulnerability. I, I will say, you know, I mentioned this conversation with my friend and the other people in my life were the close friends. They were very supportive. And my co host, Rudy, he. He was all for it. He thought it was great. And I think that when you have people around you who will energize you, that that makes a really big difference. And then also people who can. You can reach out to and ask for help. I mean, so that was another shift was that I didn’t need help in my academic work. I, you know, I went into the classroom, I knew all my stuff. I know how to write a paper, I know how to book a ticket for a conference. But then when it came to this, I don’t know, I don’t know, how do you, how do you get it on all the platforms, how do you edit it, how do you create a logo? You know, how do you get sponsors? Like, I was in a very vulnerable position where I had to reach out to other people for. And so that was also new for me.
Amy Stone [00:25:29]:
And how did it feel when you put yourself in? Was it a positive experience? Did you feel invigorated and excited to put yourself into this space of trying new things and discovering? Did it feel risky? How did it feel to push yourself into this zone of uncomfortability?
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:25:46]:
It. After, after that it, it felt really great and it’s continued to feel great. I’ve had a chance to meet other people who are in podcasting in all different areas of the business and I found it to be a very welcoming crowd. It’s not snobby at all. People are so nice and they’ll give you even more tips or they’ll introduce you to somebody that you could have as a guest and then you can pass on your guest information to the other person. So the podcast is space is so welcoming and I was allowed to be my nerdy bookish self. That was another thing that I think I was concerned with because in the university space I can be as nerdy and bookish as I want and it’s completely appropriate and not weird. It’s called for, but that doesn’t translate into, you know, social gatherings and parties. I’m not going to talk about like if life has any meaning on a Friday night. And so, so you find ways to curb your interests with someone like me who’s super bookish to curb your interests in order to fit a social gathering. But with the podcast, I’m able to go ahead and take that me that’s in the university space and be as bookish and nerdy and it’s fun. So it feels cathartic. It feels really good to have another place to be that way.
Amy Stone [00:27:08]:
Oh, that’s such a great answer. All right, so we talked about the mindset that you had when you were starting and the concepts that you had bouncing around your head about being vulnerable to be a woman, a 41 year old woman starting something in the media Your friend gave you the tip, which I think is absolutely spot on. Focus on creating good things. And that’s the place to focus. I want to shift it a teeny tiny bit because as a person who chose to step into a public facing podcast media role, you are actually an example at that point to other people that it can be done by somebody who is a 41 year old woman. And so. And so, right. You’re like a living, breathing example. You started and there you are, you’re out there. So. But when you were looking to put this together and you were questioning whether or not there was a space for you in this, in this space, who were you looking to for inspiration that it was possible to do something like this?
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:28:07]:
I had. Well, when I was doing all of those commutes, I was listening to podcasts and so I was starting to get a sense of how they were structured, how they worked. And it would be anything from information like news or serial was really huge for me. That kind of journalistic style, different interviews that were funny. And that’s how I kind of got an idea of what it was that I wanted to do. But I didn’t know if doing, talking about things with a philosophy lens would land at all. I had, you know, I had no, no idea. And so I think that that’s how the comfort started to. I started to get comfortable because. And that just happens, you know, like with practice and the more you get into it, then you still have that comfort. And the beautiful thing is that it’s still expanding. We can still just, you know, keep going. Did you have. Did you have. Did I put in the intake form? The other thing that happened in 2019 when I decided to start a podcast?
Amy Stone [00:29:05]:
No, I don’t think so. What else happened?
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:29:10]:
This is where I was like, this was not just a little shift, but in 2019, the same time where I’m like, okay, I’m going to figure out how to do this thing. And I have no technology background or whatever, but I’m going to figure it out. I became pregnant.
Amy Stone [00:29:22]:
Oh, okay. So lots of things were.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:29:25]:
Lots of things were changing at the same time. I remember because it was 2019, the semester was ending and Rudy and I were just starting. I think we had done maybe two interviews and I had just started to figure it out. And then the summer hit and I had to give a paper in D.C. and I came back and I was so tired and I thought, wow, I guess did the podcasting and the paper and the semester has really worn me out. And I was Just all of a sudden. But I was sleeping. But I was sleeping to the point where I could not keep my eyes open. And I used to exercise regularly. I was part of a CrossFit. And all of a sudden, if I walked a mile, I. A long nap. And it took me a while to figure out what was going on. And it turns out, because that hadn’t been a possibility in my mind, because for years, I was told it was a very minimal chance, really not likely for my life path. And so by the time it dawned on me, I called up my friend who was. Who was a nurse, and I’m like, this can’t be right, right? She’s like, you need to see a doctor. Please go. By the time I saw the doctor, who I had never met before, because I’d never been pregnant before. I remember when he walked in, and he just kind of glanced at me, sat down, looked at the notes, and then he looks back up at me, and he says, you think you’re pregnant? And I said, I don’t know. And he said, you’re 41. I said, I. I know. And he did the ultrasound, and he said, you’re almost out of your first trimester.
Amy Stone [00:30:53]:
Wow.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:30:54]:
And that, to me, is amazing because it’s like. Well, my mind had tricked me to not believing this was a possibility when all the signs were there. And so what I found myself is in 2019, not only was I adding to my regular course work, but now I was going to experience this thing and try to sort all that out. So 2019 was the beginning of a huge shift. And then 2020, of course, she was born in January, and then right after that, we had the lockdown. And as a result of the lockdown, I was home with my daughter. But I was able to do podcasting and actually learn more, because that time it took to get ready, the time it took to drive and all that stuff, I was in a space where I could really, really learn and figure it out. And it’s kind of interesting to have this as, like, part of the historical record, because Rudy and I are figuring out what the hell is going on with COVID and we’re recording ourselves. It’s. It’s. It’s in every. It’s. It comes up. It’s shadowed, like, in every single episode. So that’s also interesting. In addition to me becoming a new moment.
Amy Stone [00:32:03]:
Yeah.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:32:03]:
Huge shifts. I. The person I am in my 40s does not resemble the person I was before at all.
Amy Stone [00:32:11]:
That is really interesting. No. And that first, that beginning fatigue when You. It takes a lot of energy to grow a brand new human being. And it will, it will knock you. Many people are very tired. I remember when I was in my 20s and I had a co worker and I was. I was in my 20s or the phase where I was not like. I mean, I was aware that people had babies, but it was not like something I was really thinking about because it wasn’t my time frame. And I remember I went into a coworker’s office and I was like, hello? Hello, where are you? And she, she was newly pregnant and hadn’t told anybody. She’d gotten so tired that she’d crawled, like under her desk. She was napping on the floor. And I was like, I don’t know what’s happening. Do you have the flu? Do you need to go home? Like, what is this? And she was like, okay, okay. So, yes, a lot of fatigue. All right, so you were listening to other podcasts. You were very inspired. You were enjoying the process. Life goes topsy turvy. Everything is changing. Your family structure changes. Lockdown. Everybody has a lockdown story. Everything is changing. So. Oh, you know what you did tell me? What you did tell me was you said your one intentional change, that’s the podcast. And one unexpected blessing, that’s the pregnancy. That’s what you told me.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:33:24]:
So there we go, all in the same time frame. But I will say, a lot of that stress and concern, concern about the vulnerability, having her, that changed it because the. The desire to be perfect for everything, to sound right, to not seem foolish is impossible. When you have a baby that is crying or maybe, you know, you got to clean the poop. I mean, I can’t, you know, I’ve literally had under my fingernails and then I have to hit record. And so that, that really helped me that when there was even a couple of the episodes, she’s got a little giggle or a cry in the background. And I kept it in. I didn’t edit it out because I’m like, hey, this is the imperfect adulting. I’m not going to go ahead and pretend that I’m juggling everything perfectly because what happens is that when she is all taken care of, then that means maybe I haven’t showered. If all my emails are answered, that means a podcast is not getting released. If all the podcasting is happening, then maybe I’m a little bit late grading the quizzes. And when the dishes are in the sink, it’s because I’ve been taking care of all these other things. So this desire for A perfect presentation. I was almost forced to let go of it. And I’m glad I did because now when something goes a little bit sideways, it doesn’t bother me as much. I’m like, oh, this is life. That’s what makes life good. That’s what makes life fun.
Amy Stone [00:34:55]:
I agree. Yes. And when we say putting something, getting into our comfort, getting out of our comfort zone, a lot of times I feel like that has the connotation that we’re emphasizing hard work. So it’s like a CrossFit workout, like high intensity. And then the way I think of getting outside of the comfort zone is putting myself in the. In that spot that you’re talking about where you’re like, I don’t know what’s going to happen, but I’m going to allow myself to be in that space. Or I don’t know if I know how to do this, or I don’t know if I’m going to do a good job, but I’m going to be okay with that sense of discomfort as I have to do it anyway. And parenting, I will let you know if I ever get to the point where I’m not in that space raising my children, because I have not gotten there yet. I don’t know if it exists. I feel like it’s the greatest fake out of adulthood. Is that you think that, like, one experience will prepare you for the next experience that’s like that. And it doesn’t actually work like that. In my life, one experience is one way. And the next time you think it’s going to repeat, totally different. Totally different. That’s just my experience. All right, so in a minute, we’re going to do the final fun questions, which I’m very excited about. But I want to make sure that we talk about your show, which is called Good is in the Details, and that’s the name of the show. You have a co host named Rudy Salo. You say the show offers education, insight, and laughter after. Tell us about what it is. Because I’m excited to hear about that.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:36:19]:
Oh, thanks. Well, I mean, it’s kind of like what I’ve been talking about. It’s really my curiosity just being displayed for the whole world. So the more. The less I understand of something, the more I want to find the person who’s the expert and invite them on. And this has a really big range. But Rudy is a lawyer. He’s a finance lawyer. He also loves sci fi and film noir, and he’s done some standup comedy, too. So he’s a really great interviewer as well. And we really want to take a philosophical lens. So whatever somebody’s area of expertise is, I’m always kind of wondering, what are some key definitions, some challenges? How does this unfold in culture? For example, we had a film expert who wrote a book about haunted houses in movies, and she was able to connect the way in which we experience these types of films and what was happening, happening in American culture at the time and how they go together. What does it say about, like, your house has to be your biggest investment and is so important, and then in all of these films, it shows that. So important they’re willing to buy something that’s haunted. Right. Like, I hadn’t really thought about the economic reality that would have then been reflected in a film like Poltergeist. Right, right. So it’s that kind of stuff. We had another attorney on. He’s a famous homicide prosecutor, and he wrote a book called the Book of Murder with all these incredible cases that he worked on. And he also worked on the. The Dating Show. What was it? The serial killer from the seventies. Remember the Dating.
Amy Stone [00:37:56]:
On the Dating Show? The Zodiac. That’s not the Zodiac. No, but the Dating. The Dating Show, Yeah.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:38:01]:
And he worked on that. And. But how we were able to get it to fit with a philosophy lens is that the underscoring nature of his work. Work is seeking out justice. And so we want to talk about also that and the critical thinking skills that are required in order to put a case together. And he also had such incredible empathy about the victims. Like, he wasn’t sensationalizing the crimes. He really, really focused on the lives of the victims and their families. And I thought that was incredible. So the type of stuff we’ll do is we’ll talk about, like, pop culture or different areas of expertise, and to see how it’s relevant to our lives or how we can just expand our happiness with intellectual growth.
Amy Stone [00:38:46]:
That is fantastic. And so would you say that you have proven your original. You had the question. You started at the beginning, right? You started the beginning of the question. Is there a space for a philosophical podcast in the marketplace? And it seems like, yes, yes, there is.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:39:02]:
Yeah, there’s a few out there that do it. That do it really well. We’re not, you know, we’re not the only ones, but, yeah, there’s a market for it, and that’s exciting, and that’s what I. You know, I won’t talk too long, but there are so many of my students who did not major in philosophy, but they were Taking it as a ge And I would keep in touch with them, or they would send me an email that they saw a movie and it reminded them of something we talked about in class. Class. And I realized that there is a. A real, you know, joy that comes from thinking deeply about material. Do you have free will? Does God exist? Right. Like, those kinds of things people seem to enjoy going into depth about, but there’s not a space for it, except for maybe the university philosophy class. So I thought maybe we create another space in the podcast world where it’s okay to nerd out and just think deeply for a while.
Amy Stone [00:39:53]:
Well, and it actually is a unique time in communication, history and technology coming together. Right. Because you were able to put this together. Podcasting is very much like the audio version is very much like talk radio, but it’s on demand. So it’s perfectly suited for very, very specific topics that people want to go deep in. And they can. You can create it, and they can consume it on their own timeframe. And so it’s really, really interesting how they’re very touching, tight silos of very specific things that are amazingly successful. When I launched my first podcast in 2016, one of the people who mentored me had a podcast about horses. And I was like, I just can’t even. It’s, like, so hard for me to even conceive of the audience for that because it’s outside of anything that I do. But it works. He’s built a community and an audience and all of those things. So it doesn’t surprise me that you have been able to attract many, many people, people who are interested in philosophy. I’m going to put the address for your show in the notes. People can find where to get that. I’m sure that you’re on all the audio platforms and YouTube and so now, Gwendolyn, are you ready for the final three questions?
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:41:05]:
Yes.
Amy Stone [00:41:06]:
So when I was doing research for this, I think that I looked up. Is it. Did you go to school in Belgium? Okay. All right. So this question is based on the fact that I learned that about that I like to ask people from. Who have lived in Belgium how many languages they speak. Speak.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:41:21]:
Oh. So, okay. I’ve been back in the States for a while. You know, when you don’t use it, like, you lose it. So French, I would say, is my second language, but I’m much better at passive understanding. Now, if somebody asked me for directions, I’m not quite sure where they would end up, but I. I can still read it because that’s all you know, recognition. And I can understand Dutch to the point where I can order in Dutch, but that’s. I. I wouldn’t be able to read it or anything like that. I don’t understand the grammar structure and a little bit. Bit of Spanish here and there, just by virtue of being in Southern California. Languages are fun.
Amy Stone [00:41:55]:
Languages are fun.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:41:56]:
I tried, and it was too hard.
Amy Stone [00:41:59]:
Dutch is fun because it looks like some of the words look like American words that have been misspelled. Like, it’s like. It’s like you. If you remove some of the letters, like there’s extra A’s and things, you’re like, oh, that looks like that. But I. Speaking Dutch, I do not. I do not have enough exposure to do that. So. But Belgium is a place where people speak lots and lots of languages. Okay? So very, very good. Okay, so if an old friend that you hadn’t seen in about 10 years or more, like an old friend calls and says, I’m in town, but just for today, can we get together? What do you do? Do you drop everything and make plans with the friend you haven’t seen in a long time, or do you beg off and say, sorry, I wish I had more notice, or something else altogether?
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:42:39]:
No, no, I would see that. I would see the person. I would probably. My daughter’s five and a half now, so I probably have to be like, and she’s coming with me, or something like that. I’d pro. Have to bring her with me. But no, I would definitely. I would be like, yeah, let’s go meet. Tell my students, hey, we’re going to. Here’s an online assignment. Like, how do we do something? But, yeah, if it was somebody I hadn’t seen in a long time when they were in town, I. I would definitely drop everything and go see them.
Amy Stone [00:43:02]:
Yeah, love it. Absolutely love it. All right, so if I think we can divide the world into two groups of people, don’t worry. This is not a political question, I promise. So I think there are people who are. Are ready to go to a karaoke bar at any given time, and they have a song and everything ready to go. And then there’s the other group of people who would not be caught dead in a karaoke situation, and they will beg off and go to do something else. Which group are you?
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:43:30]:
I would not. You know what’s crazy is that one of my closest friends from the third grade, she loves it. I don’t get it. And it’s not like she’s a fabulous singer or anything like that guy there no. Like it’s, it’s terrible. Wait, hope she doesn’t hear this. But she and I get a kick out of the fact that she loves it. Like I, you’re right. They are two totally different mentality.
Amy Stone [00:43:51]:
Two totally different people.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:43:52]:
That is it. That is a no. That is a no from me.
Amy Stone [00:43:56]:
Yeah. But I’m, I’m also, I have been to see people do. I’ve been to karaoke bars with friends who love it and they have a really good time. And the, when I saw them, this, this conversation is absolutely, this question is absolutely inspired by those experiences because they all had the songs ready to go and they’re like, what is your karaoke song? I was. No, no, I don’t have one.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:44:17]:
This is not one either.
Amy Stone [00:44:19]:
All right, that’s it. Gwendolyn, thank you so much for being a wonderful guest today on the show.
Gwendolyn Dolske [00:44:24]:
Thank you, Amy. Great.