The Transformative Power of Choosing Sobriety in Adult Life

Amy Stone [00:00:04]:
Laura Nelson. Welcome to the art of imperfect adulting.

Laura Nelson [00:00:08]:
I am so excited to be here. Thank you very much.

Amy Stone [00:00:10]:
Yay. Are you ready for a fun chat?

Laura Nelson [00:00:12]:
I am. Let’s do it.

Amy Stone [00:00:14]:
Let’s do it. I begin every interview by asking people where on the blue marble they call home. So where do you call home?

Laura Nelson [00:00:21]:
Well, I call home San Diego, but specifically Coronado, California. So the little island across the bridge in San Diego.

Amy Stone [00:00:30]:
Wow. Yeah, a little bit jealous. Once upon a time, I ran the rock and roll marathon in San Diego right there. And we were driving over the bridge to Coronado, which has a very low sidewall, and we were in a low convertible with the top down and the windows down. And it was one of those moments where I was like, I know there’s no actual risk of me being plucked out of this car and flung over this bridge, but I was like, I wish I was driving. Like, I need to be driving, and we need to be on the inside lane. Like.

Laura Nelson [00:01:00]:
Yeah. Actually, the wall feels very close. I drive across it all the time, but the wall feels really close. If you. So I have to look the other way. Look at the boats. Look at this.

Amy Stone [00:01:09]:
I was. I was like, ah, this feels a little bit. But that is. That is a beautiful place to live, and I am jealous. All right, in a second, we’re going to talk about the topic that you have proposed. But first, I want to ask you something totally unrelated, which is about your hobbies. Would you be willing to share with me in the audience a little about you? A hobby, a pastime, a passion project that you have that you.

Laura Nelson [00:01:30]:
Yeah, I mean, I would say my. I just got a T shirt there or a sweatshirt that says this, that traveling is my hobby. Like, I. Traveling is my therapy. Traveling is my hobby. I love to travel. I’m a speaker. So it works well for my. In my, you know, what I do for a living. But my goal is to travel as much of the world as possible. So that’s really my. It’s a. It’s a great way to disconnect. Disconnect. It’s a great way to connect with people that you don’t in your everyday life and just see this beautiful, beautiful place we live.

Amy Stone [00:02:01]:
That’s spectacular. I love it. All right, so the topic of the day, unrelated to travel and anything else that we talked about, but is choosing to stop drinking alcohol. Would you like to talk about that today?

Laura Nelson [00:02:12]:
Yeah, actually, it’s not unrelated. Shockingly, it’s a good segue because I am in the dental industry in my day job. And I am a speaker in the industry and I’ve been a speaker for 15 plus years. And you know, I have two children. Raised the kids, did the suburbia life bought, you know, started a business, grew my business, started the opportunity to speak, started traveling around from conference to conference. And then in 2020 was, well, probably 2015 to 2020, questioning my relationship with alcohol, having the thoughts about going to these conferences or going to events and waking up in the morning and wished I didn’t have that one extra glass of wine or I didn’t stay up as late as I did. And in 2020, I stopped drinking literally two months, a month and a half before the pandemic. So wasn’t planning to be stuck at home. But yeah, it was a blessing in disguise, I guess. So I stopped drinking and then got back on the road speaking and such after the world opened back up. And now I no longer drink alcohol. But I’m seeing it from a different lens as a speaker, going to these conferences and the amount of alcohol around it. So that’s really what my topic is. And my interest and my passion now is just really trying to talk about this and normalizing sober choices because I don’t care that there’s alcohol there, I don’t care if people are drinking. But I also want people who don’t feel like drinking to have options and to feel like it’s okay and it’s normal. And so that’s really kind of what we’re here talking about today.

Amy Stone [00:03:44]:
So, yeah, no, we will definitely talk about it. Another old timey story of mine. I am a longtime member of a cat community running in triathlon group, which actually ties into San Diego because that’s where triathlon started. So anyway, we would get together with these social events and people would donate things into the cooler, like the common cooler. And at one point I looked over and like everything is all mixed together and we have people from like 3 years old to 75 years old that are coming, right? And so there’s like water and apple juice and wine and like an old bottle. We’re all in the same cooler. And I made this really, really controversial leadership decision that I was like, we need to have two coolers. One that has grown up drinks and wine that has drinks that 3 year olds can get into, right? And it was the three year old that like motivated my making this like super controversial decision, which is only controversial because nobody wants to move more coolers than they have to, right? The coolers are. Honey, that’s the only. But after I Did it. Several people came up to me and said how much more comfortable it made them that to go get their diet soda or their Sprite or even that it meant that we were making sure that there was something in that cooler made them feel more comfortable in a social situation. I was like, oh, I’m so glad I did this for you, even though I wasn’t thinking about you at all when I made this decision. But anyway, that is a story of giving people choices. Giving people choices, even though it’s unintentional. All right, so I’m going to walk it back. I’m going to walk back the cat and walk you through the making of this decision, this personal side of this story, if that’s okay with you.

Laura Nelson [00:05:16]:
Yeah, for sure. So, like I said, I.

Amy Stone [00:05:19]:
Well, let me back you up. Let me back you way up.

Laura Nelson [00:05:21]:
Okay.

Amy Stone [00:05:23]:
How old were you or how long ago was it when you had your first drink? Like, when did you start drinking alcohol?

Laura Nelson [00:05:31]:
I started drinking. I grew up in the military, so my dad was in the army, So I spent six years in Germany, and three years were 8th, 9th, and 10th grade and alcohol there. I mean, they sell beer at McDonald’s, so, you know, I probably started drinking casually in, like, 8th, 9th, 10th grade with the. The peer pressure and, you know, tried the cigarette and all the cool kids are outside. All of that stuff. Just normal. I mean, normal. That sounds bad, right? But, like.

Amy Stone [00:05:58]:
But that was your experience. That was the experience you had, like. Cause everybody around you. It felt like everybody around you.

Laura Nelson [00:06:04]:
Yeah.

Amy Stone [00:06:05]:
Was doing the same thing. So, like, we’ll normalize that by saying that normal is a moving target. It’s whatever’s happening around you.

Laura Nelson [00:06:11]:
Exactly. And honestly, if I really were to look back and I haven’t talked about this, actually, ever, so I’m glad that we’re talking about it here. Alcohol and the beer in. In Europe is not the same level of alcohol as in the United States, you know, so a beer over there is kind of like water with a little bit of, you know, alcohol in it versus coming back to the States. Now I’m in college, and now we’re talking, like, you know, higher level, you know, ABV beer. And now we’re talking about liquor, and now we’re talking about wine. And where I’m in college and I’m doing the college thing, um, which you mentioned the cooler. It made me think. I thought you were gonna say there used to be a thing where, like, we would have a sorority, a fraternity party, and there’d be a trash can and Everybody would just pour. There was a line to trash can, pour whatever bottles of alcohol they had in. I think they called it jungle juice or something.

Amy Stone [00:07:02]:
Oh, my gosh.

Laura Nelson [00:07:03]:
You literally drank this, like, leftover, you know.

Amy Stone [00:07:07]:
That is so gross.

Laura Nelson [00:07:08]:
It’s so gross. Right? When you only had $5 left in your thing and you were going out, you’d get, like, Boone’s Farm wine or, you know, so.

Amy Stone [00:07:17]:
Yes, that.

Laura Nelson [00:07:18]:
Yeah.

Amy Stone [00:07:19]:
Where did you go to college?

Laura Nelson [00:07:20]:
Eastern Michigan University.

Amy Stone [00:07:22]:
I have a. I have a kid in college in Michigan. Now they take, like, an empty gallon jug, like a milk jug. I mean, I don’t know any. Like, my kid does not drink milk. So I don’t know where this jug comes from, to tell you the truth. Like, I don’t know how it gets emptied. And they put in, like, an Espirit and then, like, Gatorade or, like, you know, some sort of colored thing. And it has a name that I’ve totally forgotten, but it’s like this. Like, it looks like Kool Aid, but it’s not. It’s just, like, flavored. And they carry around these gallon drinks. It’s a terrible decision from start to finish. From start to finish. But it might be one step up from the garbage can collection of everybody’s leftover booze, which is maybe the most disgusting thing I’ve ever heard in my. We did not do that when I went to school.

Laura Nelson [00:08:10]:
I have to tell you. It’s so funny how things have changed, because my stepdaughter, we were talking about sorority. She joined a sorority a couple years ago. And back in the day when I joined a sorority already you got hazed, like, Like. And now they, like, give each other stuffed animals.

Amy Stone [00:08:27]:
That’s the way it was when I went to.

Laura Nelson [00:08:28]:
So it’s very different time frame. Right? I’m talking long time ago college.

Amy Stone [00:08:33]:
So, yeah, I think it also depends on the culture of the. The school and things like that. I mean, so. But, yeah, it depends on where you go in the culture of where you are. My experience was very much, here’s your present, and here’s. We’re gonna have a scavenger hunt, and then we’re gonna have a sleepover, and.

Laura Nelson [00:08:51]:
But we had a be in my sorority, actually, now that you. We had to go do a scavenger hunt, but everywhere we went, we had to drink a beer, and it was like, warm, gross beer. I don’t even know what it was. But yeah. So now you look back and you’re like, why did you have an issue with alcohol in your. You Know, later life. Well, I started really, you know, full, full fledged in college, so. But I did graduate.

Amy Stone [00:09:14]:
So the. All right, so you started when you were in Germany. I did not know that about the difference between German beers. And actually, if you had asked me to guess on that, I would have gone the other way. I would have said I think German beers would be stronger. But it makes sense because they have those giant glass. The big. The big. The big glasses, which are so much fun.

Laura Nelson [00:09:36]:
I still think they still limited. And that’s part of the reason why craft beers haven’t had such a big explosion over there. Because the government limits, like literally our beers now are the same. The percentage is the same as like spirits. Like, they’re so high in alcohol content. And I think it’s more limiting. And in Europe, don’t quote me on this, this is not my forte. But I think that’s one of the challenges for a lot of the craft beers of going into places like Europe is that there’s too much control around that.

Amy Stone [00:10:07]:
I believe it. All right, so this was a culture, I think, like when you were young and then in college, what were. You talked about this a little bit, but now let’s go a little deeper into this. What were the things going on in your life that were leading you to question what was happening in your life?

Laura Nelson [00:10:23]:
Sure.

Amy Stone [00:10:23]:
Thinking about cutting it out.

Laura Nelson [00:10:25]:
Yeah. So I. So then, you know, I got married, I had kids, we opened. My ex and I opened two different businesses. So we had the stress of being new business owners and young children at home. You know, I was doing the mommy wine culture. Like, you know, play dates and have wine or brunch and mimosas and just, you know, traveling to events and getting to go to the wine, the invite only wine dinners with my, you know, husband’s events or my events. And so we were just doing the, I say suburbia life, but, you know, raising the children and growing our businesses. And multiple times throughout that time, I would want to do like a 30 day challenge, just not drink for like 30 days, just because I’m like, okay. I just want to make sure this is not the main part of my life. And, you know, I would. I don’t know that I ever made it 30 days. I probably make it 28 days or 21 days. And then I feel great. And then I’m like, okay, cool. Then I guess we’re good. And then I’d go back to societal pressure, societal norms. And then like around 2015, 2016, my ex and I separated.

Amy Stone [00:11:32]:
Very stressful.

Laura Nelson [00:11:34]:
My Kids. Big, big impactful part of your life. My kids are now almost grown and out of the house, and I’m going through the biggest challenge of my life. And my best friends started to becoming mimosas in the morning, beers at lunch, wine in the dinner, or wine at dinner and beers at night. And. And the thing was, is I didn’t have any checks and balances because I was alone. So I could get up in the morning, and then I go meet a girlfriend, and we’d have a couple of drinks, and then I would go to dinner or whatever. I started traveling with work. I was probably, you know, burying my. My issues into the bottles. But at the events, the business events, everyone was drinking. You know, you walk into the hotel, and they’re at the bar, and they’re like, come on over. And so it was during that time when I really spending a lot of time alone, reassessing my life, going, what do I want to do for the next 50 years? Like, who do I want to be when I grow up? Here I am all alone, empty nester, and what’s my plan? And that’s really when my, you know, my subconscious started, you know, going. Playing in my head of, like, is this the way we’re going? Is this a trajectory? And that’s. That’s really when I started assessing.

Amy Stone [00:12:49]:
So I think it’s interesting, though, that even before that, you were called to the challenges, that there was enough going on in your life. Somebody, because, you know, somebody proposes, hey, do you want to do dry January? You can always be like, no, like that. You don’t have to do it. So it was maybe somewhere in the back of your mind that there were questions about whether or not it was the best.

Laura Nelson [00:13:09]:
And I. I think one of the ahas I’ve had since I’ve been on this journey now, and thing I didn’t know is I always thought you were an alcoholic or you weren’t. Like, my dad, when I growing up, my dad was always like, be careful. We have alcoholism in our family there. You know, we have. But nobody in my life was sober. Like, everybody drank still. I felt like it was an internal thing. Like, I have to have control over this. Like, I need. Ooh, look at that.

Amy Stone [00:13:34]:
Look at that. Zoom is very excited about whatever we were doing. The fireworks went off for everybody who’s watching this on video, like, the fireworks, like, erupted behind her talking about her dad, like, talking about the family genetics. Yeah.

Laura Nelson [00:13:45]:
So for me, it was like, I thought I was or I wasn’t. And what I’ve Learned is alcohol use disorder is a spectrum. And so where I was on the spectrum and it’s a self diagnosed disease in many times of like where you are. But I didn’t realize every time I woke up hungover, like that was my sign if I regretted drinking or I woke up hungover or I was drinking for the wrong reason. This is where the sober curious part is coming out now. In our, in our, in our, you know, generations of people asking about why do we drink and what are you using alcohol for? And you don’t have to be considered. Not that it’s bad or good or whatever, but just if that’s holding you back from assessing.

Amy Stone [00:14:27]:
Yeah, no, I think that’s valid because I think people do still use that framework. Even I find this very frustrating. Just from a self development, self help awareness sort of thing. When you run into a framework that has been updated and redefined to help people and yet there’s still people out there pressuring. It’s a black and white thing. It is or it isn’t. This is, you know, this is genetic. This is, you know, and you’re like, well, you know, is it or is it not? Like, I mean, I think you got sober during lockdown. I think a lot of us were like, well there’s nothing going on and no place we have to be and no one’s going to see us. So bring out the PJs and the wine and you know, and it was like, and like you were saying there was nothing, there was no check the next day. Like there was no hangover. There was, we weren’t late for anything. Nobody was, nobody was watching. So absolutely. Okay, so what? So you’re going through major life challenges. Empty nest transition is a very famous life challenge. Ending a really relationship. It sounds like you have re partnered, you’ve got step kids now. So did you get remarried?

Laura Nelson [00:15:32]:
I’m remarried, yep.

Amy Stone [00:15:33]:
So. And so what? So what were some of the challenges as you begin to question this and do the self reflection, what are some of the challenges that you hit upon for yourself?

Laura Nelson [00:15:44]:
Yeah, well, so part of it actually you brought up too. You just, it’s a segue of I. So I started dating and I met a guy who I met, you know, multiple guys dating, which by the way, if you’re married, try to stay married because dating sucks nowadays. Like the apps and the left and the right and swiping and stuff. And I’m like, I can’t believe this is what my life has come to.

Amy Stone [00:16:06]:
But and the thing is, is no one is saying good things about dating, not even the kids. So, like, it’s one thing if you’re in a relationship and you have that choice. But for the youngsters who, like, this is the option we’ve given, I don’t know. Like, I don’t know if it was any worse, better, or worse back in the day, like, you know, partnering up with the people you work with or that you meet in the bar. I don’t know. But no one has good things to say about the apps. No.

Laura Nelson [00:16:29]:
Yeah, there’s good things and bad things about technology. That’s one of the bad ones. But I. I remember praying of, like, I need a solution. I need a. I need a. This is just. I mean, this is. I’m flying home from events, and I don’t have anyone there to even know that I’m coming home. My best friend is the wine in first class that is hanging out with me every. You know, or the beer or whatever. It was just getting to a point where I’m like, I’m t. And I went on a date with a guy who was 15 years sober, who is now my husband, and he got sober with aa. And I remember going on the first day, he didn’t care if I drank or not. He was fine. He’s very comfortable in his decisions. But I remember going, okay. God, that’s funny. I wanted to get it under control. I didn’t want to stop. I don’t want to be with somebody who doesn’t drink. But he was amazing. And so he became a role model for me. Few other people, as I started talking about, like, I would go a two or three weeks sober with him, then I’d go back on the road, and I would drink more than I was drinking before on the road at events, because this was my outlet time. But I would talk about how it felt good during the time that I wasn’t drinking and people were coming out of the woodwork who were also sober. And I’m like, well, you’re sober or you don’t drink. And so I started. It’s kind of like when you decide you want to buy a yellow Mercedes or. Or pink truck or whatever, you start seeing it, right? And I. I started seeing, like, there were so many cool people around me that were sober, curious, were sober, didn’t drink, whatever, religion, health, doesn’t matter. That. That kind of got me paying attention. And then I had an Instagram. Somebody came up. It was a sober influencer who came up on my Instagram. And I remember hiding my phone from My husband, because I didn’t want him to see. I’m like, why? Why am I getting something about sobriety? And here he’s sober. But I was hiding it. Right? Right. So these were the signs that I was like, okay, if I’m having these questions in these thoughts and these issues, I’ve got to do something about this. And I got lucky enough. It was one morning, I got up and I was not feeling great, and I was supposed to speak, and I went to the gym at the hotel, and I came across a really great TED Talk on gray area drinker. And it was a woman who was very much on the same story that I was having about. It’s not yes or no. You have it or you don’t. It’s if you’re having all of this debate in your head and these issues in your head, that’s what she considered a gray area drinker. And that spoke to me, and that changed everything for me, because for me, it didn’t. At that point, it was like, I don’t care if I am or I’m not or who or what. I just am tired of this battle of trying to decide when to drink, how much to drink, when I shouldn’t drink. And it was just. It was taking up too much energy in my life. So they came home from that conference, and that was the last day I drank.

Amy Stone [00:19:28]:
That was it. So do you think that there were. Because I was going to ask you if you ever. You said everybody in your family drank. And then you go through this awareness where you discover that you’re. There are people around you who are sober, curious, and maybe sober. Do you think that it’s. What, that you just didn’t notice that there were sober people around you while you were drinking or like you? Yeah, it’s just. You just weren’t seeing it.

Laura Nelson [00:19:50]:
Well. And for. This is part of what I wrote, why I wrote a book about this, too. Because if you look at the places we go to, not so much personal, because you can choose where you go and who you hang out with, but when you have to go to business events, if you look around, everyone is carrying a glass with a lime on the corner and it’s it. And nobody’s like, they’re kind of hiding what’s in their cup or not in their cup. So we don’t know. We’re assuming everybody else is drinking.

Amy Stone [00:20:19]:
Right. But it could just be club soda.

Laura Nelson [00:20:20]:
Could be club soda.

Amy Stone [00:20:21]:
And that’s what I. That’s what I do all the time when I’m In a place when I’m in a placement, like traveling the next morning or whatever, and people are drinking, I just like. I’m like. I order like a soda and I’m like, hey, just put this in a highball for me. You know, exactly like. And the. The bartender is happy to do it because otherwise people are like, hey, how come you’re not drinking? I’m like, I don’t want to have this conversation with you.

Laura Nelson [00:20:38]:
So this is why I assumed I was the only one. But when I really started looking and hearing these stories, I’m like, there are other people who aren’t drinking. So now what I. My goal is to always find other people who are in the room. Not that I want to hang out with them all the time, but I don’t feel like I’m the only one anymore. And I think that is a big thing is because when you really. There’s already enough shame and stigma and things you have to go through when you get sober. But then being at a space to know you’re not alone is just. It’s great.

Amy Stone [00:21:08]:
No, there is a. There’s a whole lot of socialization that goes into the talk about sobriety, but that same issue shows up in so many other things in making people feel like they’re not pushed out by those choices. So the challenges you had were, you know, creating a safe space for yourself in a social environment and having a support network that you felt was around you. What kind of support did you have when you were going through this? You found this TED talk about gray area drinking, that support. You had your partner who was 15 years sober and, like, really sounds like he was a rock. What other support did you have as you were going through this. This process of figuring out for yourself?

Laura Nelson [00:21:46]:
Well, I joke around and say, I got sober on TikTok because where you were geeking out or drinking the wine and whatever. I was on TikTok and I just started following sober influencers, people who were sharing their stories. I. The first book I read with was this Naked Mind by that book changed my. Within a couple days. I changed from I can’t drink anymore to I choose not to drink, which was pivotal because she really breaks down why we even have this in our way. We grow up in society and all of that. And so my support was really online because, you know, we couldn’t go anywhere. We were locked down. And I just started following and hearing. And then I actually. I joke about this. I started my own TikTok channel, and I did it to document my first Day, first week, first month, first year for myself so that I would never have to go back and do that again. And I built up quite a good following there. And nobody. I did it because nobody in my business life knew I was sober. And I needed a place to outlet. I needed a place to share my experience. And so I really kind of got sober on TikTok is sort of the joke that I make.

Amy Stone [00:22:57]:
I love that. An interview I did earlier today, which you have no way of knowing and it won’t be up, you know, for weeks and weeks and weeks. But we also talked about TikTok and she had. She was making a joke about, you’re not supposed to use TikTok this way. This is not what TikTok is for. But. And I was saying, I was like, but this is how people are using Tic Tac. People go and they find things. They, you know, go back to their doctors. They do these things. That book, the Naked this Naked Mind is, I would say that is definitely the most well known book, especially for women, because it’s written by a woman for sobriety. And I think it’s really interesting because so much of self help is fueled by women, but the books are always written by men. It’s like really, really crazy. But this is one where the leading book is. It’s not a new book. Like, it’s.

Laura Nelson [00:23:43]:
No. And she put it out as just like online as a draft or something, a blog or something. And just. But she woke up the next day and there were so many people on there that had read it. Actually, she has a. I’ve now been certified by her coach.

Amy Stone [00:23:56]:
She has a program.

Laura Nelson [00:23:57]:
Yeah, I’m not. I don’t consider myself a sobriety coach, but I’m a speaker on it and I wanted to make sure I had all the research because Annie’s done like thousands of hours of research to support this. But she has a new book coming out. It’s coming out the end of the year. So I’m super stoked about that because. Because she’s grown and learned so much since she wrote that years ago. I think it was like 2016 or something.

Amy Stone [00:24:18]:
Oh, I would have said. I thought it would. So then I would have thought it was older because I don’t know.

Laura Nelson [00:24:22]:
I think it, I believe 16, something like that.

Amy Stone [00:24:25]:
Even if you don’t get sober after reading that book, it absolutely changes the way you think about putting it in your body.

Laura Nelson [00:24:31]:
Completely. Completely. There are people who read the book who aren’t sober, but they’re more sober, curious, and they’re more sober. Ish. Based off of the information that she says in the book.

Amy Stone [00:24:41]:
Yeah. And she really openly shares her story, which is really good. And it’s really judgment free, which is, I think really important because that. I think that a lot of people who are going through curiosity about any kind of change in their life. One of the big speed bumps we can run into is. Is when somebody. We feel like other people are judging us, even if it’s just going to the gym to lift weight or ourselves. Ourselves, right. Yes.

Laura Nelson [00:25:03]:
That’s a lot of it. Is that we already are judging. I mean, we’re the hardest critics on ourselves.

Amy Stone [00:25:08]:
Yeah.

Laura Nelson [00:25:09]:
For me, that’s how it was. Literally, I was beating myself up, like, how can I have everything else in my world under control? But I have this problem with this alcohol, like, and I was beating myself up. I’m like, I must be broken, I must be wrong. I must be everybody else has it under control. And then come to find out not everybody else has it under control either. And I’m not alone. But I was really hard on myself during that time.

Amy Stone [00:25:32]:
I believe it. I’m glad you’re on the other side of that. There’s a second part to the question about support, which I’ll ask you, which is, is not to judge what you had and what you experienced, but to offer people who are in an earlier stage of a journey, like what they can look for. When you look back over this part of your journey, you can start whenever you want. You can start when you were a kid. You could start two weeks before you got sober. What do you wish or what, when you look back, do you think would have been helpful for you going through that you maybe did or didn’t have?

Laura Nelson [00:25:59]:
I would say that opening up and a community makes a big difference. So just talking about to somebody, either somebody, a community, go to a meeting, go online, get connected. Getting in some sort of like mastermind or. Or guru coach, group coaching or just listening. Right. But just being open to the fact that you potentially want to change something in your life just to be open to it and then connecting to others. Because whatever your issue is, it doesn’t matter if it’s addiction, it doesn’t matter if it’s depression, it doesn’t matter if it’s loss, whatever it is, somebody else has gone through it, somebody else has walked in your shoes, somebody’s on the other side of it. And I kind of wish I would have been more open and less black or white, less I have it or I don’t but more like I’m having these challenges, I’m having these thoughts because now I have so many people I can call and talk to around this subject and other subjects that I just wish I would have. I would have. I would have gotten sober sooner probably, or I’ve not had so many hours and hours and hours hiding it and, you know, dealing with it internally when I.

Amy Stone [00:27:13]:
And like just the rumination, like, why, like in the self doubt. I think it’s really interesting because I. I think that we get that advice in two different places. And one of the ways it feels like it’s really uplifting, it’s like, hey, you know, you are the combination of the five people you surround yourself with, right? Like, that’s like business, networking, marketing. It’s like, go find the people you want to be like and level up, right? And it’s like, all right, get out there, those things. But then when it comes to like changing a habit that you are surrounding yourself with self judgment right internally or you feel is projected from outside, and it’s like, go find people who are doing the thing you want to do. It’s like, well, I don’t want to go to the gym, they’re going to laugh at me. Or I don’t want to go to this support group because I’m scared, you know, they’re going to judge me. And it’s actually very much the same advice, you know, it’s very much the same advice if you, if you want to do this thing, it’s a lot easier if you surround yourself with other people who are two steps forward.

Laura Nelson [00:28:09]:
I think too. The second book I read, I didn’t realize this. I didn’t do it on purpose. I just happened to. It was after the new year, I got a book sent to me by my financial advisor, of all people, and it was Atomic Habits. I read that right after this Naked Mind, and I was like, okay, baby steps. That’s the trajectory of your. You know. So I think that too was just opening my eyes to like, you know, there’s. There’s other ways to look at this, other ways to do this. And here’s.

Amy Stone [00:28:37]:
It is, yeah, it is the attack. This is the Atomic Mind is such a helpful book because he breaks it down and makes it seem like habit change is very, very granular and very, very easy. And it’s like, I’m just gonna stack these habits and then, then you get into it and you’re like, you know, I still want to do the thing that I’m trying to break the Habit. It’s not actually as easy as I was hoping it was going to be. It’s like, okay, this is going to take a little more work. It is a wonderful book, but I just love that. It’s like, I do still want the brownie.

Laura Nelson [00:29:09]:
Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yep. But being open and aware to thinking through that’s the biggest thing with Annie’s book and the coaching we’ve done. The stick in mine is just, I want that drink. Right. Like, you come home and you’re like, I want that now. Is it the drink that you really want? Yes. There’s an ad addiction, and you have to overcome that. But, like. Or is it just the idea of the relaxation, relaxing on the couch and a cup of tea could do that for you. Let’s try it. You know, let’s. Let’s see. Right. Be aware. Just be curious. That’s the. The first step.

Amy Stone [00:29:39]:
And, like, when you were telling your story, you’ve obviously done this work yourself. It sounds that one of the things that you were doing is you were filling a gap of loneliness.

Laura Nelson [00:29:47]:
Yep.

Amy Stone [00:29:48]:
Yeah. And so. And that’s. I mean that, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laura Nelson [00:29:53]:
And it’s life. Right. It’s all. But that doesn’t mean that has to be the same trajectory that I needed to let the rest of my life go on. And luckily, I had a lot of that time where I was.

Amy Stone [00:30:02]:
Hmm.

Laura Nelson [00:30:03]:
I’ve got this opportunity to redefine myself. I didn’t expect myself to be 22. 22 years married and then divorced. Right. I didn’t expect to be here in life, but I can also redesign my life the way I want to and literally have and did, because I was open and curious about it.

Amy Stone [00:30:20]:
So of the changes that I talked to people about, one of the big ones is ending relationships. Do you know who Esther Perel is? The relationship person?

Laura Nelson [00:30:28]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Amy Stone [00:30:29]:
So I just. I haven’t read the article. It was a quote from her today. Like, she was just quoted as saying that. That we should tell people that they might want to expect being in two or more marriages in their life. It’s not. And I’m fascinated to know what people will respond to because that’s a pretty. You know, she. Anyway. Because. But it is that it’s that adjustment that it’s like, I didn’t think this was going to happen.

Laura Nelson [00:30:53]:
Right.

Amy Stone [00:30:53]:
Like, I was told this was forever, but, you know, forever in 1880 is a little different than forever in 2024.

Laura Nelson [00:31:00]:
Well. And I think that we were just talking about too, like, empty Nesters. It’s the same. We, when we take on, when we have children, we take on the identity of parenting and all of that. I’m still a parent, but my kids are out of the house now. And you lose your identity. I remember going to therapy during that time and she’s like, why don’t you go home and try to do some things you used to do before you had kids and were married? And so I was like, what did I used to do?

Amy Stone [00:31:21]:
Right. So that was 25 years ago.

Laura Nelson [00:31:23]:
What was that? Yeah. So I’m cross stitching, I’m in my room sitting in a chair, cross stitching, and my kids come home and they’re like, like, what are you doing? And I’m like, I’m cross stitching. And they’re like, why? And I’m like, I, I used to do this before I had you guys. I don’t know. I’m trying to figure out what I like. I. You just lose your identity and you have to really kind of.

Amy Stone [00:31:42]:
And they call it like reawakening and reclaiming. And sometimes I push back on that a little tiny bit. Because cross stitching you can do, right? You can pick up the same thing. But we don’t actually go back to being 22 years old. And so some of those things that we did before we had kids, they don’t translate well.

Laura Nelson [00:31:56]:
Well.

Amy Stone [00:31:56]:
They don’t translate well to the 50 year old life. It’s like, I don’t actually want to do that, so. Right. Totally, totally. But yes. All right. What are two or three ways that your life changed as a result of you embracing this change? It sounds like you’ve talked about the mindset change and so on. What are some of the other ways that your life changed as a result of this?

Laura Nelson [00:32:16]:
It actually changed way beyond what I ever even imagined. Like, so I thought putting down the bottle was, was the thing. Like once I put down the alcohol, once I’m not addicted anymore, life will be great. And it, and it was great. And it is great because I don’t wake up. I never regret not drinking the night before. I never wake up in the morning, go, oh, I wish I had had a glass of wine. Like, like mornings are, are amazing. And I used to hate mornings, right? But the next thing is, is that once. And a lot of people find this, once you stop relying on the substance to numb the pain, use for celebration, whatever, then you got to really start doing the internal work on yourself because you do have to get through the first concert, the first death, the, the Pain, the. The fight, the this, the that, and. And learning really about yourself. And again, kind of like you’re saying, I had to, you know, you have to go back to, who am I? Like? And at 13, when I started drinking, or 14 when I started drinking, and not that I was drinking excessively then, but. But I wasn’t even a developed human yet. I didn’t even know who I was. You know, you’ve got your parents who put you into. These are the roles of the family. You’ve got your peer pressure at school, and life just starts. And so I had this whole, like, awakening of, like, I don’t even know what I believe. I don’t know what I like. I don’t know what I don’t like. And that’s cool because it’s very empowering because every decision that I make now, I know it’s not that it’s not going to be. It’s my decision. It’s not going to be because of alcohol. It’s not going to be because there was some substance in my body. And there’s a lot of stuff I’ve done where I’m like, yep, not doing that anymore. Didn’t like the way that felt. But then there’s a lot of stuff where I’m like, I had no idea I was good at this. I had no idea. Like, two simple, funny things, like, I will never do karaoke again in my life, ever. The only times I ever did karaoke is when I drank. I don’t sing well. You’re never going to get me to do karaoke again. Right.

Amy Stone [00:34:08]:
Okay. All right.

Laura Nelson [00:34:08]:
I actually love dancing. And I forgot I used to love dancing in college. But then the issue was I didn’t want to set down my overpriced drink whenever we were at a bar. And so I would never really go out onto the dance floor because alcohol became more of the priority at the.

Amy Stone [00:34:24]:
Bar versus the thing.

Laura Nelson [00:34:26]:
Right? And now I can. I can put down my coke, I don’t care, and I can go dance. And so it’s things like that where it’s just like, you and. And people ask me, because, like you said, people ask why you don’t drink. And they’re like, are you in recovery? Are you an alcoholic? Are you. You know, they’ll say these weird things. And I did a video recently about, I’m okay to say I’m in recovery or I’ve recovered because I feel like I’ve recovered my life. And in that. That regard, I’m like, yeah, I actually do, because I think alcohol took a percentage of my life that I just got back. And the energy that I have, not focused on that, I can focus on other things.

Amy Stone [00:35:01]:
I think that’s good. I put that question of why aren’t you drinking? Into the box where like, like asking somebody if they’re pregnant is like, like, never. Like, I’m never, ever, ever gonna ever ask anybody that question. Unless, you know, I mean, I can’t think of a scenario where it would come up, but. Because it’s just like, it’s just such a strange once. And I probably did ask people that at some point, although I don’t remember, but I more remember people pointing out what a strange question it is.

Laura Nelson [00:35:26]:
Yep, yep.

Amy Stone [00:35:27]:
You know, like, oh, why aren’t you drinking? I, because I am thirsty for water. Like, this is water in my, you know, like, so. And I had a, I had a.

Laura Nelson [00:35:35]:
Guy who, I was going to an event, I friend, and he followed my TikTok channel. He knew I was sober, and he came up to us and we had just gotten to the event, and he’s like, oh, hey, nice to see you guys. Whatever. Can I, can I get you guys a drink? Like, to me and my friend, I was standing by and then he looked at me and he goes, oh, I’m sorry. I, I, I’m sorry. Like, somebody had died. And I’m like, no, I, I would still like a drink. I’m thirsty.

Amy Stone [00:35:59]:
Right, exactly. Like, water is a drink. Lemonade is a drink.

Laura Nelson [00:36:02]:
So I respect a fact he remembered and he was, but it, the, the, the, the way he responded. I went right to my hotel room and made a TikTok video about it because I was just like, it was hilarious, but also like, I didn’t die. I still think adult beverage in my mind is just an adult beverage. It’s not a coke or a lemonade. It’s something like everybody else is drinking. Just give me one without alcohol. Yeah, that’s the only difference. Who cares what’s in my cup, right?

Amy Stone [00:36:27]:
Yeah, no, absolutely. A hundred percent. 100%. All right, so in a minute, we’re going to do the final questions, which my, of my, my rapid fire questions. One of the questions I sometimes ask you about is karaoke, but I’m not, it’s not on the list to ask you, but when you.

Laura Nelson [00:36:40]:
I got it there. Never doing it. Never doing it.

Amy Stone [00:36:43]:
I want to give you a chance to tell people about the good work you do and how can they connect and follow you and find out more.

Laura Nelson [00:36:50]:
Well, thank you. So, so in 2023, I was at a conference and I was a speaker on a wellness panel. They asked me to be on the panel because of my sobriety. And it was 125 women in the room. And I happened to ask how many people in here consider themselves sober, sober, curious, or soberish? And a quarter of the room raised their hand. But the issue is they all raised their hand sort of hesitantly and looking over their shoulders to see who else was raising their hand. And none of the women knew about each other. And my, my business partner now was in the room and she’s 20 years sober. And she and I looked at each other. We weren’t business partners then, but we both knew we were sober. And we were like, this is has to change because we’re all walking around with glasses with our lime in the in it because we don’t want to deal with the questions yet. There’s a quarter of the people in here who don’t even want to drink. And then the meeting planner came up to me and said, I didn’t even realize there was that many people who wanted better options. All I have is beer and wine and water at my house tonight. What should I get? She said, I’ll never host a meeting again without considering. Because she’s such an inclusion inclusive person, she was alienating a quarter of the people who didn’t want to drink, drink. So that’s where Sober Life Rocks started. And Sober Life Rocks. We are here just to honor and support people who are making sober choices. We’re in the professional space because a lot of times in your personal space, you can choose what restaurants you go to and bars, but in the professional space, you’ve got a wine and dine the sales people. You got to go to the conferences and network at the bar. And so we really want to celebrate people who’ve made the choice to do drink less or not drink in the sober space or in the in professional space. So. So Sober Life Rocks. We have the largest community on LinkedIn. So if you, if you search Sober Life Rocks Community, you can find us there. Join in the message. And then last November, I wrote a book on the inclusive event planner because I do go to conferences on a regular basis and I feel like the meeting space is complete. Completely missing the boat right now. Yeah, we’re still doing the way we did it in 1960. And we’re all standing around the bar, in the conference room at night, and networking happens over drinks. And we know that organized events are shrinking. Yet the only thing meeting planners know to do is throw more alcohol at it. But there’s a percentage of people who aren’t even going or they’re going back to their room early at night because of the amount of focus on alcohol. So my book, it’s a free download. It’s just for event planners, HR meeting planners, to just open their eyes to the fact that there’s a good percentage of people who would like to have better options and not just around the bar. Give me a better conference where I can network easier, and it’s not always over a happy hour. And the events that you do in the evening are not just focused on alcohol. Let’s do something else and include the alcohol. I don’t care. And then let’s offer better options at the bar. So that’s kind of my passion for that.

Amy Stone [00:39:38]:
Very good point. My favorite story about this was when I was pregnant. Like, really, really pregnant. Like, at a party. Really, really pregnant. And I was thirsty, and it was a wine bar. So I go to the bar, and I say to the bar, I have always found that bartenders are, like, fabulous people, helpful in all situations. And I was like, hey, obviously, majorly pregnant wine is not on the list. What else do you have? And to your point, the reason this came up, he didn’t have very much. He’s, like, digging underneath the bar, and he comes up with some juice, and then the only thing he has is these goblets. So I end up with this wine goblet full of ice and some red juice, like, cranberry juice or whatever it was, and a straw. And I’m walking back to my group with this ridiculous glass with, you know, it would have. It would have been a bottle of wine, right? Like, it was like a. You know, and a straw. And I get accosted by this very, very drunk person who’s like, you should not be drinking. And I was like, dude, what do you think is happening here? Who’s the ice and a straw? Back off. Like, no, enjoy your. Enjoy your party. You know, like. But I just. But the part about that that resonates with your story is that, you know, even when, like, people wanted to help, there weren’t very many options because of the planning, which helps. Okay, and on that note, three questions, just for fun, not about anything that we’ve talked about. Just try and answer with this few. A couple words. Whatever. The first one is super easy. What is your favorite color?

Laura Nelson [00:41:07]:
Oh, my gosh, I’m gonna go purple. I’m a Baltimore Ravens fan.

Amy Stone [00:41:11]:
There you go. Oh, that’s interesting. Since you live in California. All right, very good. What is something that people do? Not anybody specific, but, like, people in general, just other people that annoys you that you’re willing to talk about on the podcast.

Laura Nelson [00:41:24]:
Oh, geez. These are. Wow, this is good. Oh, my. I. I don’t like it when people don’t respond back. If you say something, give me an acknowledgment. You heard me. Don’t just let the conversation end. So I don’t know if that’s a good one, but.

Amy Stone [00:41:39]:
No, I get it, too.

Laura Nelson [00:41:40]:
I’m like, did you hear me? Can you say yeah or thank you, or. Okay. Like, I just feel like communication should be two ways.

Amy Stone [00:41:45]:
Friday did. Do I need to say it again? Okay, there you go.

Laura Nelson [00:41:48]:
Yeah.

Amy Stone [00:41:49]:
All right. So I did not know about the travel when I wrote these questions, but what is a place that you want to visit or see and experience in your lifetime?

Laura Nelson [00:41:59]:
Well, I want to go to Australia. That’s the plan for January. I’d love to go to, like, Greenland, Iceland, something like that. In Africa.

Amy Stone [00:42:06]:
So you had a list ready to go. You were ready.

Laura Nelson [00:42:09]:
Just got home from Vietnam, which was life changing. Awesome. So, yes, I have my next. My next list of things I’d love to do.

Amy Stone [00:42:17]:
How long were you in Vietnam for? Three weeks.

Laura Nelson [00:42:19]:
And the cool thing is I got to go with my dad, who served in Vietnam, so he got to go back for the first time since the war. I got to go with him to hear what life was like then and to see how Vietnam has grown and in the country. So it was. It was an amazing trip.

Amy Stone [00:42:34]:
That does sound amazing. That does. What was it like for your dad? Was it, like, a good experience for him to see the country when it wasn’t at war?

Laura Nelson [00:42:43]:
Yeah, so it was really good because you have to think about that. A lot of these men went over when they were like, I mean, he’s 17 years old. He didn’t know what. He was just doing what he was told to do. And he was told, here’s the enemy and here’s what we’re doing. And now to see the country, and the country is growing and it’s a young country, and to. Just to see the people, they’re beautiful and the. Where he was stationed is gorgeous. And so I think it was a good closure for him to see, like, even though it didn’t work out and, you know, there’s all the controversy, he can look back and say, at least the way the country is now, you know, it was a good closure for him for. For sure.

Amy Stone [00:43:18]:
I can, I mean, I have no exposure for that, but I can’t imagine how jarring it must be. Just, you know, anytime you haven’t seen something for a long time, like you go back to your elementary school classroom and you’re like, ah, this is not the way I remember it. Right. And that’s a major, major shift. Like, this was a country that was at war and you go and visit it now it’s. Now it’s a tourist destination. Like people are going for like beaches and food and all of those things. That’s a major shift.

Laura Nelson [00:43:43]:
Yeah, for sure. And I think also it was full. I mean, he’s taking his 50 something year old daughter with him, which was not even a thought in his radar then. And just for us to spend, you know, no one else, just he and I for three weeks together, which I have never had that with my father. Right. So it’s going to be one of those things that I’ll. I’ll treasure forever.

Amy Stone [00:44:03]:
Did you eat the crazy street food? Food?

Laura Nelson [00:44:05]:
Yes.

Amy Stone [00:44:06]:
What is the craziest thing that you ate in Vietnam?

Laura Nelson [00:44:09]:
Well, actually, I’m gonna just. I didn’t eat anything super crazy. But we actually stopped in Korea for two days on the way there because he was also stationed there. And I was like, I’ll eat kimchi. Like, how bad is kimchi? Like, I like sauerkraut and stuff. Oh my gosh. Kimchi is the worst.

Amy Stone [00:44:24]:
The worst.

Laura Nelson [00:44:25]:
There’s like variations of it too. There’s.

Amy Stone [00:44:27]:
Yeah.

Laura Nelson [00:44:27]:
Oh, God.

Amy Stone [00:44:29]:
It’s like a thing. It’s like lasagna, Like Italian lasagna. Like everybody has their own, own version in their own house. Like, they’re really, really proud of it. Like, so it’s different wherever you go. So that was the, the.

Laura Nelson [00:44:38]:
I would say that was the grossest, weirdest thing. And I was like, I’m never having a kimchi again. I can at least say I tried it. I tried.

Amy Stone [00:44:44]:
You tried it. But you. So you did not have. Because where I got my nails done, they always have tourism videos and they, the street vendors and every once in a while they have something on there. I’m like, that. That I would not want it. Like where they’re chopping up like giant cockroaches or whatever into it. I’m like, I’m like, I would not want to know if I was gonna eat that. I would not not. I could not know.

Laura Nelson [00:45:00]:
I would. I used to watch Amazing Race on a regular basis and I watched those and I’m like, would I do that? Would I do that. I’m not doing that. And food was usually the thing where I was like, yeah, no, I’m not putting a live bug in my mouth or whatever. That’s how I get eliminated from Amazing Race for sure.

Amy Stone [00:45:14]:
Oh, my God. That’s so good. All right, that’s it. Laura Nelson, thank you so much for being an amazing guest on the show today.

Laura Nelson [00:45:20]:
Thank you. This was awesome.